[edited]. It's not often that I find myself disagreeing with you on this board, but right now
I am wondering how you manage to breathe at such a high altitude?

Non NES use their degree from a NES country in order to demonstrate the fact they can
understand English well enough to study for it.
On the other hand, NES are still required to hold a degree, and that degree could be in
Ballroom Dancing or Origami - to what end?

When I left school in the late 1970's, most people went on to do a 4-year apprenticeship.
They considered this more useful when compared to spending a further 4 years sitting
behind a desk learning how to fold bits of paper.

As such, many of us, (myself included), studied for a degree much later on in life at a time
when our careers were taking direction and we knew which path we wanted to choose.
Others opted to get a fake degree in order to satisfy the Chinese regulations. Just
because their degree in Origami is fake, does not necessarily make them a 'deecher'.

Sorry my response is not relevant to your disagreement with Turnoi. I have to say that I can't make head nor tail of his reply, though I can understand your argument.

Anyway, moving on to another issue:

I wonder if Australian and New Zealand universities award 3 year degrees, probably called ordinary degrees, in line with what I know happens in the UK.

I think you can enlighten me.