Mandy
- 2007-05-26
I have been working for BSK for 4 years. I am the longest-running employee they have, second only to the freakin' owners. My name and email address are fairly well-known, so no, I'm not a troll.
Does the company have problems? Of course they do. Show me one in the world that doesn't. However, I have to laugh because MOST of things that people here are complaining about, are idiotic.
BSK teachers now have their hands held. They are given flashcards, materials, entire lesson plans and texts to follow. Copyright laws broken? Sure. Again, like everywhere else in China. But how does that affect YOU, the teacher? It doesn't. I get the book, I do my job, and I get paid. I get paid very well, actually, because I *do* my job, instead of moaning and complaining. If anyone is going to get in trouble over copyright laws, it is the COMPANY's problem, NOT yours. So please, do shut up about it.
Let's nail some concerns.
1. 15 percent withheld every month. Okay, fine - have that taken out of the contract before you sign it. Oh wait - I'm sorry, that implies you must READ it first, and I see how this can be a problem for so many people. And don't say it can't be written out - I and two other teachers currently under contract with BSK are living proof that they do rewrites.
The first 2 years they deducted that from my pay because I was staying in a BSK-paid apartment and that was the monthly deposit. What no one seems to post is that YOU GET IT ALL BACK at the end of the year. Plus a bonus if you're a lucky one. 
Once I got my own place? Those pesky deductions? They STOPPED. Imagine that.
2. 2 rooms in back of a restaurant
Good call. I hated that too. So did they - that's why they now run out of converted school they bought and developed specifically to help BSK grow. The owners OWNED the restaurant, and it made for cheap rent for the company while they built BSK up.
4 years ago, they were all squeezed into a single room in an office building on Han Kou Lu. The restaurant had more space, but you whiners wouldn't know about that.
3.the clauses they put in their contracts leaves you wide open to what they deem is a good teacher. /quote
Oh please, cry me a river. You know, the teachers who work for BSK who have no complaints are the ones who are never late for classes, and don't call in sick every time they have a hangover. My SCHOOL demanded two teachers be fired because they were rude to their Chinese co-workers. Lets hear some proof please - what reasons did they state for your dismissal? 'Cause I'd lay even money I know why you got canned - and I don't sympathize with you one bit.
4. Badly designed website
To be honest, I've never seen the website. I don't care. I have my job, I do a damn good job at that, and my issues are handled by the company when I bring them up, provided I do so in a rational manner. So the website is poorly designed - most are. The people running the company are not web designers - they hire someone to create it and give them information they want shown. If you hate the website, SKIP IT. Contact the company directly - they'll be more then happy to put you into contact with me or any other teacher working here.
So this is it? These are your chief complaints? Give me a break. First off, this is NOT your home country - whatever rules you play by at home have no weight here. Unless you're Canadian. Joking. But you can't expect a Chinese company in a Chinese country to abide by YOUR country's standards. If you can't live with that, go somewhere else.
Frankly, it would make ME happy if you did. I am sick and tired of having to help train and deal with whining and moaning new teachers who are only here as a means of financing their travel plans and don't care about their kids. There was a former BSK employee who ranted about the company's unjust firing policies - and that particular teacher was late to class every single friggin' day for three straight months!! And no, that's not word-of-mouth I'm passing on.
Ask anyone - I'm the first person to spout off about this company. I have my own issues with them, but it has more to do with inter-office communication problems, and nothing to do with my teaching job. But new teachers whine and rant while THEY are HANDHELD through the whole process! I mentioned lesson plans and materials - you also get TA's to translate and make photocopies for you. The fact that people bitch about HORRENDOUS conditions - please, I've been there, done that and can trump ANY of you.
16 hour days? Worked it. 3+schools per week? Hello first year. 500+student? Yup. No materials? Gee, that sounds familiar. Money withheld? for two years. I talked to them, got it dealt with, and wow, wouldn't you know, this year I seem to have less problems then the years before. Funny how that works, a little communication in place of rampant bitching. Odd.
I won't put BSK on a high horse - they ain't perfect by any means. But the venom here against them is ridiculous, considering the source of it.
If you are considering working for BSK, feel free to contact me. I don't sugarcoat anything. I will tell you the pros and cons and you can make up your own mind.
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-10
Ah. I was talking about the kind where they take an amount or percentage every month, for the duration of the contract.
I'm a bit more tolerant of the probation period schemes...but not much. A difference of 1000 RMB per month seems typical from what I've seen; I've seen as high as 3,000 per month! I've seen probation periods running 1-3 months.
I understand the reasoning the owners use to justify these things, but I don't really buy it.
If I take a teaching job, we're essentially assigning a monetary value to an hour of my time and teaching labors. I don't see how that hour is suddenly worth more on some arbitrary date than it was on, say, my eighth day there. Either I teach that hour satisfactorily and you pay me the agreed wage and retain me, or I suck and you pay me and fire me.
It is my opinion that these probation schemes are about 99.9% about getting us on the cheap, and maybe 0.1% about "proving ourselves."
I notice that none of these schools offer to return the difference in salary to you if you successfully run their little gauntlet. If they did, my objections to them would disappear.
Personally, I resist taking a probation period unless I am in a situation where I desperately need the job. There are still plenty of schools in China that don't play these little 2-bit games.
Raoul
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2006-05-10
Hi DB.
I appreciate your point, and it doesn't sound unreasonable. You're actually giving me too much credit though. It was originally Raoul who made a good point about deposits. I was merely agreeing with him. Of course it's one thing to give you a reduced salary during a probationary period and another to hold back a percentage of your agreed salary. The latter, I would definitely disagree with, in fact I did disagree with it when my latest school tried to pull that same trick with me at the beginning of the school year.
DB
- 2006-05-10
Sorry Yingwen. I guess I didn't make myself clear because on the surface I agree with your response. Basically, I'm referring to the practice of offering teachers a somewhat reduced salary during their probationary period. Generally this is about 500RMB less per month than one receives after the agreed upon period of probation, and it is not money that is returned because it is not salary. What it amounts to if you ascribe to the "glass is half-full philosophy" is that you get an increase in salary after you've proven your worth. I don't have a problem with that; unless of course it is just used as a ruse to keep salaries low and/or as a means to keep fresh faces coming in every three months.
Rheno747
- 2006-05-09
Being 'forced' to make a deposit is a scam I've heard about from other teachers. But there is another scam that is just as insidious--the witholding schools will do to teachers' salaries at the end of those teachers' contracts.
I'm facing the end of yet another year-long in Thailand. I'd really like to stay until the end of my contract and get in an 'official year' in experience. But I may not.
Like most of you, I get paid at the end of each month. I get paid AFTER I put in my time, in other words. Herein lies the problem. Judging by my school's past behavior toward its farang hired hands, I'd say I'm in for a screw-job come the end. This is because these guys like to withhold money from their teachers' salaries for bogus reasons, such as room damage or outrageous charges on electricity when contracts end. It's a shame really. It encourages running. Yes, because I know what's coming, I myself am probably going to do a runner one month before the end of my service here. I hate to do this, but I'm not going to play the idiot and forfeit a good portion of my salary my last month just because I chose to be a 'good guy'.
Yeah, play by the rules and get burned. No thanks.
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2006-05-09
> Hey DB,
> I respectfully but strongly disagree with your contention.
> I work in exchange for an agreed salary level. If I've done my time
> as agreed, then I have earned my salary and no school of any
> description has any justification for withholding it from me. My
> suitability for long-term employment has no bearing upon the salary I
> have already earned.
> If the school doesn't like me, they can fire me and replace me. Pay
> me for the hours I worked and then show me the door...I lose my
> contract completion bonus and other incentives.
> But I see salary in a different category. Again, when I've put in the
> time, I've earned it and it should then be mine free and clear. There
> is absolutely no viable excuse for keeping it from me.
> School owners play these little games to help keep their staff docile
> and helpless...and to increase their chances of getting our labor on
> the cheap. These practices are an invitation to abuse, and should be
> shunned at any institution of ny kind.
> Regards,
> Raoul
Right on!
I totally agree with this. Excellent post!
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-08
Hey DB,
I respectfully but strongly disagree with your contention.
I work in exchange for an agreed salary level. If I've done my time as agreed, then I have earned my salary and no school of any description has any justification for withholding it from me. My suitability for long-term employment has no bearing upon the salary I have already earned.
If the school doesn't like me, they can fire me and replace me. Pay me for the hours I worked and then show me the door...I lose my contract completion bonus and other incentives.
But I see salary in a different category. Again, when I've put in the time, I've earned it and it should then be mine free and clear. There is absolutely no viable excuse for keeping it from me.
School owners play these little games to help keep their staff docile and helpless...and to increase their chances of getting our labor on the cheap. These practices are an invitation to abuse, and should be shunned at any institution of ny kind.
Regards,
Raoul
DB
- 2006-05-08
It's not necessarily true that one should avoid any school that withholds a certain amount of your salary during a probationary period.It is a common practice at some universities, and rightfully so considering that many teachers are not suitable for long term positions and it is difficult for them to make that determination wihtout witnessing the abilities of said teachers. However, it is true that one should be suspicious of private schools that attempt to do so - for any reason. In fact, private schools should generally be avoided. There are a few exceptions of course.
If you're thinking of working for a private school, it would be wise to avoid those that do not have Western managers or owners; however, you should be initially suspicious of any private schools, and of course do your research.
Good luck!
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-07
Without even wading into all the opinion in here...any school that feels it has to withhold part of the teachers' salaries as a deposit is a school to be stayed the hell away from. If they are indeed following this practice, don't go to work for them!
Middy
- 2006-05-06
The complaints about this company are long on invective and short on reasoning. I've worked for them for 3 years now and haven't had any major difficulties. I also know several other teachers who have been with them for a few years. I know that the company has had some problems with teachers who can't control their classes; take every possible sick day at a moment's notice, forcing others to take their classes; and not putting enough time into class prep. If you start to experience friction with the admin due to these practices, I think you should consider how you'd fare in any work situation. Teaching in China is a job, not a vacation. If you can't spend time learning how to conduct yourself properly in the classroom, you can use that time later posting vague complaints on the forums.
Middy
cy
- 2006-05-05
Pacican has been providing a valuable educational service in Shanghai over the past years, thanks to the support and fine work of its dedicated staff and more than 30 foreign teachers it hires each year. It is, to say the least, not in the Company's interest to mistreat its employees, especially considering they all come afar to work in a different social and cultural environment. However, regrettable as it is, it is inevitable that there will be a few like Heaven and Ace who could not have their way and therefore are bitter about their experience. The Internet provides a convenient medium for them to air their bitterness. If they could be a bit more honest, reponsible and fair, they should add some factual information about the exact source of their bitterness or their "personal conflit" with the Company and why they failed to get their way. This would be enormously helpful to the Company and those teachers who might be interested in coming to work for/with Pacican in Shanghai. It is not too much to ask Heaven and Ace to be reasonable.
Ace
- 2006-02-23
I worked for this company for 6 months. Honestly they are absolute ar*****es to work for and i dont know another teacher that genuinly feels otherwise. I think it all starts with the management/owners and filters down.
I hope to god this company goes out of business, because they really treat people like shit. Students included.
Jason
- 2005-09-25
I only worked for them on a summer job for one month. Definitely the bosses of the company are a bunch of racist users and I can't stand them. Whenever I went into the office, I felt incredibly unwelcome for someone who was considered an "employeed" of the company.
But as one person said earlier, the people lower down in the ranks are okayish (though the company seems to be divided), and Johanna was amazing. She is very very helpful and knows what her bosses are like as well, and tries to compensate for them - so don't blame her if bad things happen as she tries her best.
I think the 15% off has gone (partly due to Jo), as this never was an issue for me. It wasnt an issue for the teacher I was sharing a flat with and it hasnt been an issue (as far as I am aware) at this start of the new semester.
Brent
- 2005-08-03
Hi all!
Good to hear that Kerri and Dean are doing okay. Are you guys planning on staying in Shanghai/China/Asia ? Best of luck to you!
I posted a message before, but I guess it wasn't approved. Maybe they didn't like my picture. I'm not THAT ugly! Doh!
Unlike the negative postings here, I don't think I will speak for others. I will only speak for myself, as it is the only person I know fairly well.
My statement is this (short and sweet). Any problems I had with the company (and I can only think of a couple in my two years working there) were resolved upon having a conversation with one of my employers.
Done... questions, comments, keep in touch...
Feel free to contact me... email provided
Brent
2005_employee
- 2005-07-28
I must agree with Kerri here. I was a teacher with the company this past year (2005) and I must say that if you sign a contract with them, you should expect the contract to be changed arbitrarily by the company. They will change things in your contract as subtle asohlets sayyoure agreed upon salary. This is true. It happened to me on more than one occasion. You seethis company is the ultimate user. Their philosophy is never what they can do for you. It is only what you can do for them. They dont care about you as a personthey only care about that little English speaking mouth of yours and how it can make them money.
There are a few nice people in the officeI will give them that. At this point I will say hi to Johanna as she will undoubtedly be reading these online forums in an effort to give the company a positive spin.
If anybody decides to work for themI have one piece of advice for you
Stay away from the office! (I use the term office loosely here)
There is a direct relationship between visits to the office and bad news. Alsoget call display. Any news from the company is usually bad news.
cheers
DC
- 2005-07-23
Kerri,
would you mind emailing me or posting on the forum, it is up to you, your experience with this company? I already signed the contract, before doing any research (big mistake..)
i appreciate it if you can
dc855@bard.edu
Kerri
- 2005-07-23
Daniela,
Do not work for them!!! That's all I can say!! Do not work for them!!
unidentified user
- 2005-07-20
I worked for them, but only some part-time stuff. I would never sign that full-time contract. Basically, it is company slavery if you sign a full-time contract.
Don't let them trick you with the deposit thing of 15% , it is crazy, and any experienced teacher know it is ridiculous to sign away 15% of your monthly salary to the company.
Don't let any company do that to you. If they insist, then say you want the money to be controlled by a third party such as a law firm or a bank.
The company has a high turnover rate of teachers. That is what is keeping their business weak. But, they can get you the necessary visas and work permits needed, no problems with that.
DC
- 2005-07-19
Hi
I actually just signed a contract to work for this school and I will be going to Shanghai soon. After reading your message I'm quite skeptical now. Would anyone who has experience in working for this company mind emailing me a little more information?
I would like to hear your story. I really appreciate it. Ive already had some bad experience with some other unprofessional companies (involving the TEFL...)
Best,
Daniela
Unidentified User
- 2005-06-17
I worked for them too, but I only worked for them on a part-time contract. I didn't have any trouble with them, maybe because I was part-time. But, yes, I have heard some questionable rumours from the full-time teachers which are similiar to what you have said.
Get the teachers together, rally, and strike!
JO 753
- 2005-06-13
Since they dont honor there own contract, there is no contract.
It seems to me that if someone chooses to lie, cheat, bribe, steal, etc., they are criminals, whether the authorities agree or not. Therefor the rules of the game are that anything goes.
Whatever you can think of to get even is fair.
This is a serious warning for any teachers who are thinking of coming to Shanghai China to teach for a company called "Shanghai BSK Dalue" or "Pacican" or "CCIEE-Shanghai Branch". This company has posted job openings all over the Internet, and like many others, I got suckered into actually believing what the "web-sites" passed off as a reputable company with a real plan. If you do your checking, the sites all run in a circle, leading you to no real answers. The truth is they have built quite a network to hide the fact they are working illegally under the table using pay-offs and friends to keep in business. The "Academy" is actually two small rooms in the back of a restaurant, the administrative staff absolutely no background in teaching or education, and they continuously break international copyright laws by photocopying every book they can get their hands on, then re-naming it as if it was their own.
I am currently still under contract with them, but that is my fault. They constantly change what things in their "CONTRACT" mean, they have fired great teachers who were screwed out of a "DEPOSIT" this company withholds (15% every month of your salary) because the clauses they put in their contracts leaves you wide open to what they deem is a good teacher.
I have watched too many good teachers start here with this company get screwed and left with nothing to show to sit by and let this happen to anymore teacher actually wanting a good experience here in China. Out of 3 years of teaching in China, this is absolutely the worst company I have ever seen or heard of. PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!!