Yingwen Laoshi
- 2006-06-03
Good post TAO.
YOU surrender? I should be surrendering to you. Long before I had even thought of posting here, you were regaling us with your wisdom, character and wit. And twenty years experience? I am but a mere babe! I hope you continue to add colour and character to this forum. I wish you all the best for the future.
Keep posting and hang in there, buddy!
Raoul Duke
- 2006-06-03
We love ya, bro. ;-{)
The Arrogant One
- 2006-06-03
OK!...OK! Yingwen and Lord Duke Raoul Ill admit that you have me by the short hair. With MY record of submissions to the ESL Teachers Board, I am probably the least eligible to oppose emotionalism on any level! Also, I needed you to remind me of the TRUE purpose of this forum, albeit for a while there I was deluding myself into considering it something more than the highly effective sounding board for complaints that it has always been. Mea culpa! Mea culpa! Please TRY to view my temporary deviation from reality as, perhaps, the result of an overdose of Viagra, or my having reached a new port on that dreaded Slow Boat to Alzheimersville. Whatever the case, it doesnt make me any the less your TEFL colleague and veteran bearing my own negative and positive impressions after roughly 20 years spent in our profession. And talk about emotion HA! Each day I peer into the mirror and cry not only for the angry, fat m***er-f***er on the the other end, but for my son in Iraq, for my beloved country which is being so mishandled by its sworn leaders, for the victims of the Indonesian earthquake and, of course, for what appears to be an incurable state of corruption in our chosen profession. In view of such turmoil, I reckon these days one cant help being emotional. Moreover, letting off steam is most essential, if only for the preservation of ones sanity. So, guys
lets do ityou with your variations, me with mineall for The Cause: the improvement of TEFL everywhere! Amen.
Your friend,
The Arrogant One
Raoul Duke
- 2006-06-02
Hey Alexa,
Several possible explanations for this.
Some institutions aren't really authorized to obtain foreign work permits themselves, so they form an alliance with (read: pay a bribe to) an institution that is. This other institution may not necessarily have permits earmarked for teachers.
Other places get X number of work permits per year, divvied over several different occupational areas. They tend to just grab whatever's available.
Bottom line: means nothing to you personally. All that matters is that you have the work and residence permits held tightly in your kung fu grip.
Alexia
- 2006-06-02
Hi Duke
Thanks for your response, it made much sense to me. I just found out from the foreign experts certificate that I am working in the fields of Economics and technology and not of Culture and Education where teachers should work. Does this have anything to do with my visa? I guess that's why I was told that I am not having a teaching Visa.
Alexia
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-30
Alexia,
1) There's no such thing as a "teaching visa". Teachers use standard Type Z work visas that are ultimately converted into residence permits...again, these are the same for all foreign workers.
2) Your new employer can convert your current residence permit if you obtain a Release Letter from your previous employer. Otherwise you have to leave the country (at least as far as Hong Kong) and start over again.
If you want to radically change the subject, please consider starting a new thread...
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2006-05-30
Just a few points about use of the forum, TAO.
There are many forums on this board. We have the "teaching strategies" forum for stuff directly related to the classroom and the "school reviews" forum where we can post about specific schools, good or bad.
We also of course have this, the ESL discussion forum. Out of all the forums on this board it's name suggests that it caters to a broad range of aspects relating to ESL. If you check out the names of all other forums on this site you would find that this one is probably the least specific.
It seems the only thing that all posters on this forum SHOULD have in common is an involvement or interest in ESL. That allows for a huge range in different experiences, situations and circumstances of the posters on this forum. These can range from a hardened veteran foreign teacher who is now in his twentieth year in Asia, to somebody sitting in their plush suburban house back in the west, thinking of trying their hand at ESL for the first time. So that brings us to the purpose of this board.
Well the purpose for our suburban friend maybe just to get some cold hard facts about how to get started in ESL. On the other hand our "Asian vet" may want to use this place to vent out the frustrations and stresses of living in what would still be for him a foreign climate (it may be the only thing that keeps him sane and able to continue doing the job he likes). Although those two uses of the board are markedly different, are they not both equally valid?
Unlike other site forums I haven't noticed any specific rules, stipulations or conditions on using this particular forum. Besides if there were any attempt to post anything not in keeping with the boards requirements, I'm sure it would not pass the scrutiny of the forum moderators and thus would not even appear on here.
I'm a little suprised at your opposition to the use of emotion in posts, TAO, considering that you have posted your fair share of posts over the years that have not generally been any less emotive in content than any of the recent ones- for example those on the subject of ageism in ESL.
Let's live and let live. In the world of ESL there are many individuals with a variety of different backgrounds, experiences, and circumstances. May all of us continue to enjoy the freedom of expressing whatevever is on our minds or in our hearts, concerning ESL!
Shout
Shout
Let it all out
Tears For Fears
Alexia
- 2006-05-30
Hi everyone.
Please I want to find out more information about the Z visas. I have a working visa, which was given to my by the school I work for. A few days ago I was told this same visa is not a teaching visa, but an economic working visa. I dont really know the meaning of this.
Another problem is that I will be going to another school after the end of my contract and I dont know if it will be possible for this same visa to be extended by another school.
Thanks
Alexia. 
Rheno747
- 2006-05-30
Yeah, Raoul, I've heard of that crap going on. It's no surprise, though. No damn way is it surprising.
The dirty trickery of these schools was shocking to me when I first got into this, but nothing surprises me now after two years in TESOL. Hearing about the rumors of teachers being killed in Thailand because they don't pass certain students who are the sons and daughters of important people, reading the website testimonies of teachers going to China and being thrown out in the cold, both literally and figuratively, and having my own personal experiences both here and in South Korea kick me in the teeth mean nothing raises my eyebrows now.
The only thing that would surprise me is a cheap plane ticket home. Yeap, after all I've seen and experienced, I STILL have to get home somehow, so I'm about to get screwed one more time. Getting back to San Fran or L.A. for about 200 bucks would be nice. I need a pleasant surprise for a change. Now would be a good time to get that surprise.
This is about business first and foremost, as I've said over and over. Education comes a distant second at every school, but especially at the private schools in places like SK, Thailand, and China. This and coupled with common practices you tell about in your posts and the fact that farang are mostly spineless make me glad I'm leaving this behind....maybe forever.
Raoul, I want to come over to your site and introduce myself, but I just haven't had the time. I'd like to meet some of your regulars and let them know about my experiences in Thailand and my overall view of TESOL now. I'll be dropping by somedamnday. I hope it's soon.
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-30
Rheno, I wouldn't dream of arguing with you on this point. You're absolutely right.
My point is that it wouldn't matter what you were doing as a teacher....good quality work, popular clown, you name it....if they decide they want to save a few thousand RMB from you then you're instantly a "bad teacher" no matter what you've done. I've seen it happen to people many times...
Rheno747
- 2006-05-30
"You are notified that you are a bad teacher and are fired, effective immediately."
And the reason you'd be fired is because you're not putting smiles on kids' faces. You're not playin' your role of bein' bozo the ##### clown. As I've been saying for the past year or more over and over and over.....it's not about education. "Teachers", and I say that in quotes because most have mere TESOL toilet paper--holding one of those doesn't make you anything except a whole lot poorer, are expected to be scapegoats, intellectual janitors, walking billboards, patsies (especially the young ones, which explains why this industry targets young people--they're naive and don't know the scams yet), and yes, clowns. We're supposed to be entertainers.
Those getting into TESOL should go to clown college instead of the rip-off TESOL programs. They'd be much more qualified for this business.
Oh, you thought you were supposed to be a TEACHER? So did I when I first got in.
Raoul Duke
- 2006-05-29
Thanks, O Arrogant One.
Meself, I'm all for accuracy in reporting. Tell it as it is, good or bad...or both.
Just coming out to bitch about things in general is unconstructive...paints an unfairly black picture of things and denying people what could be a great experience for them. On the other hand, spreading only sunshine for the purpose of selling this industry up to prospective teachers strikes me as rather deceptive, even traitorous. It smacks of helping out the only ones who are really profiting from this industry in the first place.
So, please just call it the way you see it.
Unfortunately, IMHO there isn't so much positive to write about in TEFL these days, at least not in East Asia. Yeah, the people are great (when they aren't being total turds, anyway), the kids are cute, the settings are exotic, the ladies are hot, and so forth. All that is still here.
Balancing that are incredibly corrupt societies...corrupt schools watched by corrupt regulators for a corrupt government, all for students/parents who like it that way as long as they get their cut. You've got school owners and managers who spend years devising ways to screw you over. At least in China, you've got a culture where a business owner is a godlike being whose word and whim are to be accepted as law regardless of an existing contract. You've got police who'd rather deport or imprison you than look at you. The last things on anyone's minds are quality education for anyone, or a fair shake for all the dancers in this minuet.
EFL has become a poohole business...at least for those who try to look beyond the short-term superficialities and make a real stand in it. It's become a lot like The Shawshank Redemption...there may be joy and sweetness to be found, but one may also have to endure a lot of forcible sodomy and raw human waste in the process of finding it.
ASSIGNMENT: Imagine yourself as an English Teacher in a small city in Hunan, China. You have 8 days left on your contract when the school manager calls you into the office. You are notified that you are a bad teacher and are fired, effective immediately. Because you didn't complete your contract, you will not receive any of the bonuses, airfare reimbursement, etc. you would have been entitled to, and your final pay is being penalized. Furthermore, your passport and residence permit have been sold to a Hong Kong chop shop, and your girlfriend has moved in with the school owner. You are then given 35% of your pay, from which your utility bills are deducted, and told you have 24 hours to vacate the apartment.
Write an imaginary account of your dealings with this school, for posting on an imaginary internet web forum. Be sure you present your case logically and factually- Don't get emotional!
LOOK ... I'd be the first to back a dude's freedom of speech -- especially around Memorial Day and with a son currently serving in the JAG Corps in Iran. B-U-T, guys, using this particular forum as a sounding board for dissention concerning practically every phase of the TEFL biz is a little much ... even for this aging born skeptic. NO, I'm not saying that most of the bitching hasn't been legit. And as His Excellency Duke Raoul so aptly put the case, we do have need of such things if not only as a source of reference. B-U-T such bitter bitching in a forum meant to stimulate its readership through accentuation of all the positive aspects of TEFLing ... well, it's a little much for my money! The original notion I got was that the virgin TEFL instructor tuned in to the ESL Teachers' Board to obtain a first-hand knowledge of the JOYS of teaching abroad. Naturally, there have always been the negative aspects of any job to deal with, however this forum has unfortunately become a gathering place for those who relish attacking the wicked as well as casting serious doubt on the credibility of those who have not heretofore initiated even the slightest degree of wrong-doing. Hell's bells, folks, have we forgotten that along with that freedom of speech schtick goes one's being innocent before proven guilty!
Sure ... sure ... as a hardened veteran of this business, I admit I've had days when I've considered every school and teacher agent as crooked as the next. B-U-T, I'm certain we all know that each day is a fresh experience, while in an age when Asian schools are in dire need of the crme de la crme of EFL instructors from the States, I'm certain we don't want to turn off any potential instructor's interest or enthusiasm before the fact. Let's use the Teacher Discussion area of the ESL Teachers'Board as a source of information presented factually and logically -- but never emotionally.
If this is what you alluded to as my "good sense and maturity," Mr. Fish, I'm sorry. I love teaching variations of thinking and not dwelling on only one way of viewing an issue. Teachers new to the TEFL field will have time enough to experience, study, and reach their own conclusions -- be they positive or negative. I, for one, intend to be informative, but never persuasive . So sue me already!
The Arrogant One