TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent martin hainan - 2015-08-19
Re sad aftermath of ESL "careers"

I can only speak to teaching EFL in China and ESL in the United States. Teaching EFL in Korea or Taiwan or Dubai may very well be a career. I simply don't know.

Let's take ALL the FTs in your former workplace, Zhengzhou.

As far as I know, every one of them is a contractual employee who needs to renew their contract, physical and residency permit annually or, if they are very well positioned, well qualified and in an organization with significant guanxi, every three years. My former Chinese University Dean, who had a PhD from Oxford, still hasn't qualified for that.

This means that any given year they may be denied an opportunity to stay in the country. Perhaps for reasons unexplained to them.

As far as I know, not one of these Zhengzhou FTs is accumulating a pension or significant social security even if he or she were allowed to retire in China, which in all likelihood they will not.

If they do, as you suggest, open their 'own' business, they must have a Chinese partner who will always be in China even if they, as a foreigner, is denied a residency permit. In my past business in the U.S., I have often wished that my partners could be deported. I would have seen to it, if it was possible.

If any one of these FTs becomes seriously ill, they will be unable to pass their annual physical and denied continued residency.

Not one FT will ever become a permanent resident of China. Even if the marry a Chinese citizen, each year the PSB will scrutinize them and their wife will always have the power to have them deported with unsubstantiated claims.

A career provides material success, comfortable benefits and the certainty of continued growth. A career teaching EFL in China? I think not.

#2 Parent formerZhengzhou - 2015-08-19
Re sad aftermath of ESL "careers"

It wasn't necessary to create a disambiguation between 'EFL' and 'ESL' and then use the switch in the rebuttal. You know what I meant writing 'ESL in China' and I knew what it meant and we all knew what is meant by that. So now that isn't here nor there and we can discuss what's more difficult or requires more skills (EFL vs ESL) later I suppose.

As for a career. Again, not sure if you are trying to have another round of 'definition' here but what do you think 'career' means? The commonly understood meaning is the only helpful meaning and the definition you understood being used: making a living doing it. 'career' might even imply making a living and some kind of 'arc' or development over the time.

So, as I taught you earlier, many ESL teachers (EFL if you prefer) make a living doing this and yes they progress as they go along in some 'arc' or something we'd call a 'progress, steps, advancing'.

As you were recently taught - some (many, a few, 17,000) start at the bottom as ESL teachers in their home country (joking but not really) and that's relatively easy but they might earn a living doing it. Then they decide to go overseas to a 2nd world country and take on more skills and make a living teaching English in China for example. Often starting at some poorly run training centre. After 1 or 2 years they are making a living at a University or perhaps more upscale VIP lessons. Or even large adult audiences. From there many will take on the responsiblities of a 'Director' in some capacity for a training center or english department. After a few years some of these people move to Taiwan, South Korea or Japan and again continue earning a living and in many cases more experienced teachers earning a fairly decent living while now becoming skilled in many different Asian cultures. Its not unusual to learn these teachers have transfered onto Dubai and some Arab countries where they might even do surprisingly well financially speaking but are now becoming superb experts at how to teach 'EFL' to many different ages, levels, categories. Some of the great ones develop into very skilled entertainers I should add.

Now, at any given time many of them may be staying put somewhere or like many people in many careers sacrifice some financial betterment or progress in exchange for some new experience skills - maybe move to Vietnam to teach EFL or even choose to stay in a China training center but for legit reasons they reason.

Not unusual to find these people. I once read a statistic that some 17,000 westerners are 'Career EFL' teachers. They earn a living (usually fairly comfortable overall) and they do so for their life. Their long-term lifetime job.

So what about it?

Unless you want to change and use some specialty definition of career then you stand corrected.

#3 Parent martin hainan - 2015-08-19
Re sad aftermath of ESL "careers"

English is a foreign language in China. It is never used by citizens of China to communicate with each other. I've attended Chinese University Foreign Language Department Christmas parties, attended by 45 Chinese teachers of English, where not one person said Merry Christmas to another. Everyone spoke Chinese. I was only invited because I would speak Chinese and not embarrass anyone by forcing them to speak English in front of their colleagues.

Teaching English in China is truly EFL, not ESL. This is a distinction that is seldom made, but I believe is important.

Teaching English in the United States or England or Australia or Canada to immigrant students, even immigrant adults, is truly ESL teaching. English is taught to become the student's Second Language for daily use. These teaching jobs are a career, albeit not a lucrative one, requiring a Masters Degree in Tesol or equivalent. Every elementary, middle and high school in major cities in the U.S. has certified ESL teachers who are FULLY BILINGUAL and hold these degrees.

Legal "ESL teachers" in China are routinely and merely English native language speakers with a college degree and two years employment doing something. They are seldom qualified to teach anything, English or otherwise, in their home country. If they are "certified", the majority of on-line TESOL programs are of little value other than to acquire a "teaching" position in a third world country.

Now: I also put myself in this category. My "qualifications" are from Columbia University in New York, but NOT a Masters Degree, only a "certification", of 15 credit hours, and practicum. An expensive, prestigious, but barely adequate preparation.

Foreign "teachers" in China are given the incredible opportunity to share a classroom with students. No school district in their home country would give them the same opportunity. I love what I do and I would recommend it to other people who are interested in experiencing China after graduating college or who have retired from a career.

But it is NOT a career. And it is NOT teaching ESL.

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