This site is not blocked inside China, despite posts that are routinely negative about China.

I suspect that this may be because it is closely monitored by officials for activity by those
respondents who are currently inside China. I also suspect that some posts are made to
elicit responses from teachers in China who might recommend illegal activity or be 'too
specific' about illegal activity that they have observed.

Additionally, the private school industry in China routinely posts erroneous information on
this site to 'bury' negative reports on their own schools.

Good post! Let's hope this site does not get blocked inside China/HK in the future.

Whether Jay is real or not, don't bring children to live in China if you are an EFL teacher.

The pollution is no joke. Children should have a clean physical environment in which to mature.

And education in international schools would just be too costly.

Your questions have largely been answered by Turnoi and Kevin so I won't spend a long time answering them.

Simply, people do work on L, F an M visas but it as we all know is illegal and not advised. You would feel like a fugitive and be always looking over your shoulder. You have to lie because you might accidentally mention to a local person where you work, then they will tell the authorities and then you will get a visit and they will pick up a reward. I would not want to live like that and doubt you would. If you were caught it would be you in the firing line not any agent or employer.

The fact you are intent on bringing your family into the equation opens up a whole different can of worms. The visa regulations even for those legitimately here are a labyrinth never mind if you are here without a legal status.

Employers who can offer z visas usually will but the reason why there are far fewer compared to those who aren't is because to get legal status in China to be able to employ foreigners requires a vast amount of legwork, financial status and other things which generally new or small training centers simply have not got or are able to get. During the summer I was approached by a new training center with an invitation to see if we would be able to have their intended foreign teachers listed under our licence. When I advised them that our licence is for a set number of foreigners which we have and even if it was not we wouldn't entertain this no matter what the financial incentive they lost interest but this kind of thing does go on (or rather did go on as it is becoming almost impossible to do now).

It is getting more and more difficult even in the remote and less desirable provinces to circumvent regulations and the widespread changes that took place just a few months ago have pretty much put paid to that element of things. I have mentioned my feelings before about this already in previous threads.

There were and possibly still are cases where employers will generate a degree and submit it if it is a case of they can legally obtain z visas but the applicant does not have a degree. This was largely overlooked but now because of the countrywide live system is becoming almost impossible. As an example in my province we can submit copies of the documents online to get initial clearance but we must supply original copies for verification at the time we go to physically obtain the Foreign Experts Book. I have even had to change our contracts to state that if we employ you and you cannot later supply the original of any document then we will have to terminate you immediately. It has gotten that strict.

I pity to your situation as I am sure you would be able to make a go of it and if I were you I would be looking at international schools, but sadly because of the degree situation it is going to be a tough challenge for you. The rules specify at least a three year verifiable bachelors degree to be able to qualify for a Foreign Experts Certificate, z visa and resident permit. Regarding X1 and X2 visas it is not something I have had experience with so can't honestly say.

An agent which has rather a disagreeable reputation not to far from where I am started getting foreigners X2 visas because they offer a six month stay without the need for a resident permit but I heard that that got knocked on the head this year.

Bringing me to my final point regarding agents and recruiters, not all are out to deceive you but sadly a lot only care about their commissions and rather like a hotel cares about 'bums on beds', they care about 'a body in front of a class' and will do all they can to achieve that, often promising you the world but when in fact you get to China the reality is vastly different and everything was a 'misunderstanding'. Our school stopped using recruiters and agencies a long time ago and the problems we had when we did were almost eliminated overnight largely for this reason, the web of lies they used to tell applicants. I appreciate some people with no experience will not know where to look but you can with a bit of detective work find your own jobs without their help, it just takes more time and effort but it is achievable.

Good luck whatever choice you decide to make.

Okay so here is my questions, and I have a few...

First thing I need to mention is I do not have a B.A. degree, and therefore apparently I cannot get a working Z visa in China.

Therefore limiting my options to zero on bringing my family over to China after I get there working on an L visa.

My wife and I have been married for over 13 years and we have 2 children ( a daughter who is 12 years old and our son who is 6 years old)

Well after some long discussions over the years, we ( wife and I ) finally decided that we have had enough of living “hand to mouth” and
we wanted to move out of Canada and somewhere abroad. After much research we decided that China seemed like the place to go and be.

So the wife and I got our TESOL's, and I ( husband ) have been looking for work in China ever since ( July 2015 ).

The goal was that I would go over and they ( the family ) would follow behind me when the kids are done school in June 2016.

But as everything in life goes, nothing worked out the way it should.

So in theory, the wife and I would get L visa’s and work "under the table" an off "the radar" which is apparently the “norm" in China. But with
that said, this would mean that the kids would than not be able to attend school of which is obviously not a good thing in any ones books.

An agent explained to me that the only option I had was to get a Z Visa, and then apply on my own for the family to join me. But in the same breath they said that schools are very unlikely to sponsor someone with a B.A. degree.

So why bother telling me about getting a Z Visa right?

Another agency said that the kids could get X1 ( student ) visa.

And yet another agency even suggested to me to just come over and work and have the family visit me on an L visa
for a couple of months at a time and then go back home when the L Visa were up.

This confused me because a different agency said that you come over on a L Visa to teach and that every 60 days you need to go to Hong Kong or a check point and they will renew it for you WITHOUT questions.
This seemed very odd to me. How can you get a VISA for1 year and have to check in 6 times and NEVER be asked what you are doing there that you want these extensions? Maybe this is true, I don't know?

So with the above said.... here are my list of questions...

1) Can and should one work in China on an L Visa?
2) Is this renewing of the L Visa a normal and logical occurrence?
3) Could the kids get an X1 Visa?
4) What are the odds on ever getting any form of status ( other Visa's ) in China to stay for good and teach ESL without a B.A. degree?
5) Could the kids go to school on L visa's?
6) Can a school really sponsor a none B.A. Degree holder so they can get a work permit?
7) If I get a Working Visa ( school sponsor ) can I than bring ( sponsor ) my family on my own?
8) What are the odds on getting caught while working on a L Visa?
9) Are you allowed to work under any circumstances on an L Visa?
10) If you get caught working on an L Visa, what could possible happen? ( worse and best case scenario )
11) Is it worth the risk ( if any ) to go an work in China as an ESL teacher on an L Visa?
12) The difference between a business visa and tourist visa in regards to teaching ESL?

Thank you for all your help. If you have ANY other information and views on this topic PLEASE feel free to express them. All information is relevant to me.

Thanks

Jay