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#1 Parent American teacher - 2015-12-29
Re Beware of Joy Cram School in Taichung Taiwan - Teachers Discussion

I have had the same experience. Beware of the Taiwanese teachers... They undermine the efforts of foreign native English speakers!!!!

#2 Parent Raoul Duke - 2006-05-28
There are places to post... - Teachers Discussion

There are still lots of places to post accounts of interaction with schools.

This place doesn't seem to censor out names. Nor does TESall (http://www.tesall.com). Nor does English School Watch (http://www.englishschoolwatch.org). We certainly don't at our partner website Nate's China School Review (http://www.chinaschoolreview.net) and definitely not at our site, Raoul's China Expat Saloon (http://chinateachers.proboards17.com/index.cgi).

Just because certain well-known online Cafe places have chosen to become the personal ## of the commercial ESL industry, please don't assume the rest of us have followed suit. We haven't.

I do agree, though, that too few know about all our sites and don't make enough use of them...

#3 Parent Rheno747 - 2006-05-28
You're right - Teachers Discussion

Yeap, you're right. Not many people get tipped off. I think this is because if someone decides to come to a place like Thailand to teach ESOL, he is bent on coming. Nothing will persuade him not to, not even website tip-offs. Those not really coming don't care about the tip-offs. They're not coming, so they don't need to read websites like this.

#4 Parent emmaryan - 2006-05-27
places to post neg specifics? - Teachers Discussion

Sadly, most TESOL teachers have no backbone. They put up with all sorts of abuse, meaning guys like me will have a tougher time with this TESOL thing. They also keep their bad experiences to themselves, meaning I will be more in the dark when it comes time to change jobs.
This is just another reason I'm getting out. TESOL teachers don't care enough about each other to tip their brethren off about the minefields.

Rheno,

I agree with the first part of your statement. The second part...well, the fact is that there are damned few places (if any!) which allow posts with things to say about specifically named schools to stand.

Those posts are deleted or never allowed onto boards where posts are approved before the public sees them. Another thing I've noticed is that too few teachers actually use these types of forums. Both of those things will reduce the number of "tip offs" to nearly zero.

I've thought about getting out of TESOL many times from things similar to what you have posted. I'm still here and reevaluating sometimes day-to-day because I think I have things to contribute. You obviously do so I hope you really don't 'get out.'

#5 Parent Raoul Duke - 2006-05-25
I Just Hate This... - Teachers Discussion

You've hit on a major sore point with me. This would be teachers who get hit by demands that they accept massive increases to their teaching schedules, coming with little or no change in compensation...and the teachers....DO IT!

It's often a close companion to the teachers who take all kinds of insane demands because they "care about their students".

KIDS! If you are wronged or ripped off, I'll be the first down here banging my sword on the barricade with you. But if you get wronged or ripped off because you're too spineless or silly to get the facts or to stand up for yourself, then there's nothing anyone can do to help you. On your own head be your fate in such a case.

The fact that you're in a strange new country does NOT mean that you are subject to such obvious abuses as working without compensation. Please, for your own sake and those of the rest of us: get a grip!

Though they may plead poverty, at many schools they don't make adequate investments in staff and infrastructure simply because this would mean reducing their own personal profits. If the school's admin doesn't care enough to reduce their own profits, then why should you?

Please. Stand up for yourself with these people!

Raoul

#6 Parent Robin Day B.Sc. MSc. B.Ed. - 2006-05-25
The bosses know you are weak and like it. - Teachers Discussion

I agree with Reno and Raoul, a lot of teachers are spineless and the bosses know it, see it.

I just got a call from a 51 year old American woman in China and she says because her 11 classes a week at a Middle School are too crowded (50+/class) management wants her to teach 22 classes next term with no mention so far of more pay or a new contract. She is stressed out and venting to me on the phone but is telling me she "will probably do it because the students like her so much." This is so soft in the head.
People who get abused are usually not masocists, they just don't have the courage to stand up for themselves. They wimp out and swallow their anger. I make it clear I don't get pushed around, so I usually teach at schools just one year. I don't mind this as I know it is the best way and I see more of the world. Why do people keep teaching if they are not paid? Go to a store and you will see the law of the business jungle: No cash = no goods or services.
Why did that guy Mike keep taking jobs in Russian if it is corrupt there and he did not get paid? I guess he finally had enough.

#7 Parent ? - 2006-05-24
Joy Language school - Teachers Discussion

I could not believe what I was reading in your note. I worked fo Joy Language School in China and found it to be bad really bad. On the contract they say you work so many hours and then they made me work 6 to 7 days a week, when I would ask why they would make some excuss liek it's in the contract or we cant do nothing about it. They will also tell you there school is good and other ones are bad for example my boss thought I would be looking around for another job becouse I kept complaning so she told me the other school are scams and they are bad. Then they make you pay all the appartment fee's which most schools do not and it was so expensive I could not afford it. Then i was getting less then I should get paid and I would ask them why and they said oh your appartment is expensive or we never charged you last month. Then they wanted to take my passport and I would not let them and we got in a big fight. Finally I did the midnight dash. But when i got home my boss would phone here all the time semanding I come back or she'll get the police after me(they caint do nothing). It was a horriable experince.

#8 Parent Raoul Duke - 2006-05-24
Yes! - Teachers Discussion

There ya go!

These schools pull this horrible stuff on us because they _can_. They almost always get away with it. The teachers do little to defend themselves, trotting off to their scheduled classes like sheep no matter what the school does, or making a beeline for an airport and a ride home after the contract ends.

This is wrong. This only encourages the school to pull the same excreta on the next guy next year.

The weapons the schools fear most are the very weapons you have at your disposal. The schools hate disruption- as in cancelled classes- and they hate embarrassment- as in bad publicity.

So, if you must, next time you find your passport confiscated, call your Consulate and don't go to class. Sit in the lobby and make a scene. Same thing if you find your contract being materially violated. To either of these, let people start finding accounts of your troubles all over the internet. Keep it up until the situation is resolved. Of course, if you can get ALL the teachers at the school to hang together, this is much more effective...

We come from countries where jobs are scarce...hard-won and hard-kept. This isn't true in the EFL business in many countries, but we keep forgetting that.

By all means, be careful. Be reasonable, fair, and scrupulously honest in all your dealings with the school. Keep a mind open to compromise on the places that can be compromised and negotiated. Try to save face for your owner/manager if you can. Don't use these extreme measures lightly or often. But keep that bullet in your pocket, and use it if you have to.

#9 Parent Rheno747, B.A., M.A., PhD, Hard Knocks U - 2006-05-24
What being gutless will get you - Teachers Discussion

According to some I see here from time to time, teachers are supposed to sit back and take abuse from schools, directors, and even recruiters. These guys love to pidgeonhole "complainers" into the category of 'didn't do his homework'. Sure, some people don't research enough. But there is such a thing as a LIAR in the real world. How does one defend himself against liars? Reading history, that's how. Lots of history can be read right here, and although it may be too negative for the sensibilites of some, it is very useful for us who are looking to better ourselves in TESOL and want to avoid the minefields of lies.

Sadly, most TESOL teachers have no backbone. They put up with all sorts of abuse, meaning guys like me will have a tougher time with this TESOL thing. They also keep their bad experiences to themselves, meaning I will be more in the dark when it comes time to change jobs. This is just another reason I'm getting out. TESOL teachers don't care enough about each other to tip their brethren off about the minefields.

#10 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2006-05-24
Make a Stand! - Teachers Discussion

Mike, as always I'm not pleased and empathize when I hear of a school jerking their teachers around. But further to a thread being discussed elsewhere on this forum, I can't help thinking that too many teachers are partly responsible for their predicament.

As another poster stated, there is no excuse whatsoever for schools to lie, cheat or scam teachers, but why many teachers just sit there and tolerate such practices, I don't know.

For example, you mentioned having to sign two contracts. WHY sign two contracts? You could have simply refused to sign a second, or gone to the PSB or FAO office, and inquired whether this is legally correct, if you weren't sure.

As regards them holding your passport, the answer to that problem WAS quite simple. Don't give it to them. O.K, I know that they sometimes have it in their posession when they process your legal documents, but once this process is fully completed simply ask for it back. DEMAND it back if necessary, but don't leave their office until your property (or the government's property) is retuned to you. One thing is for sure it's not THEIR property, and they have no right or valid reason to keep it. My present school told me that they intended to keep my passport, but I demanded it back as soon as the legal process was complete.

Regarding the contracted hours, that's simple too. The school is obligated to pay you for the hours they agreed to in the contract, as long as you work them or don't refuse to work them. If the school doesn't provide enough hours for you to work as stated in the contract that is not your problem, and you should still be paid what was originally agreed.

When schools are treating us unfairly we don't have to sit there and take it. Use your contract and the law as a guide. If they told you to rob a bank, would you do it? So why give the school your passport? If they break the contract make a stand until they rectify the situation. You are in the RIGHT. If more FTs stood up for themselves, much less of these corrupt schools would be in business.

Mike - 2006-05-23
Beware of Joy Cram School in Taichung Taiwan - Teachers Discussion

Hello-
I am writing this to all who might consider working in Taichung, there are several schools that are good, however several that are not. I am working at the Joy English School located at 308 Chung San Rd, Sec 1, Wur Hsiang 414. This school is envolved with several legal scams, firstly they make you sign two contracts one which states the money you actually make, and the other they file with the government, it shows that you make 50% less, so that they get a tax break they file the second contract but not the actual contract. Also, they hold documents including Passports (a felony in the USA, South Africa and Canada, to withhold passports, as they are property of the country not the bearer), College or University Diplomas and or ARC cards to leverage teachers, into working for less money on scheduled days off, and to keep the teacher from leaving or seeking legal action against the school. They also, request teachers to work a 7 day work week and even though you sign a contract with contracted hours they make you punch in and out and count the hours, and actually pay less if your hours are under that of the contract. I strongly recomend as the school is involved in illegal activities that any persons who see an ad for this school steer clear and save yourself a severe headache of a situation which I am currently up to my neck in.

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