Chinese men are a waste of space, and the women are mostly lazy and greedy, don't want to work, or just wait for men to do things for them. Sick society!

Well its true that many people do teach here without work visas (illegal) it doesnt really
mean anything they are married to locals. In itself that doesn't help a person or make
them any more 'untouchable' than anyone else.

Those not related to Chinese citizens and teaching without work visas are at a huge disadvantage. Non-work visas/RPs lasting for more than 3 months a time are very hard to obtain these days unless you are related to a Chinese ctizen, in which case you can get a 6 month RP without a medical check. If you wish a 1 year RP, you'll need to take a medical. However, such RPs do not allow you to teach legally. Yet they are long enough to make it worthwhile in terms of your pay and perks to teach in China. That's an important advantage of being related to a Chinese national.

However, the stiff penalties introduced a couple of years ago for those caught teaching illegally should be seriously considered. Of course, they apply to all foreigners, be they married to Chinese or not. Is it worth taking a chance and be fined heavily and banished for 3 years if you are found out? I don't think it is. Besides which, a 3 month L for touring means you will lose out on air fare allowance and vacation pay if you are not related to a Chinese national.

A very rich foreign teacher wed to a Chinese who wouldn't mind returning to his homeland with his Chinese spouse if he/she was forced to do so might well teach illegally. That is the only exception to not teaching legally in China that would make sense these days.

It really does go like that for almost every example. The only partial exceptions might be marrying very westernized women and you might find them in the biggest tier 1 cities. They've grown up speaking English, watching english movies, visiting western countries. They grew up around that and these types are even 'anti-chinese culture' sometimes (not necessarily anti-china) but they 'get it'.

but otherwise pretty much what you said. Also, I dont think a lot of western men really understand how it works with Chinese women. I mean, we actually have our own jokes "I'm married so I dont have sex" or 'Goodbye sex" meaning after marriage the wife isn't doing the fun stuff anymore. But for Chinese women its no joke. Marriage is for children. They may believe they are only fertile 1 day a month. There might be astrological issues. So sex is often over after marriage. Its done. Expect months to go by sometimes.

As you said, sometimes you get a few months. after that its an 'adversarial relationship', she wears the pants, you keep yours zipped up, get the second job and basically they only work by degrading, complaining, creating narratives about your failures (to do anything) which is to keep the husband subjegated, insecure, groveling or to simply work work work to please the constantly disappointed wife who will actually devalue his returns harder and more often the more her returns.

Yes, its a very sick thing in the culture. Its ingrained. Its really is a backward sickness.

Agreed, why anyone would want to marry a Chinese woman and then put up with her constant whining, and that of her family. The demands to get a second job, buy her more clothes, shoes, phones, etc, it would shit me off! It is especially unfair to divorced Western men. They marry one of these women and it is the same nightmare over again. I know guys who married Chinese women.........the first two months, ok, after that, hell! A truly sick and backward society!

I agree with some of what you said. I have also met some, I would say many foreigners in China who are as bad as the Chinese themselves. I mean no morals, ethics, totally dishonest individuals. I agree that a Chinese wife could be useful for translation purposes, and a few other things. On the other hand, many foreigners can speak Chinese these days. As for me, I am ineligible to marry a Chinese girl anyway, could not marry one even if I wanted to , as I won't purchase an apartment here. I think your post was good however, some food for thought.

Yes, why expats with Chinese spouses come across as smug and arrogant, AS A RULE, in your
view is indeed a mystery to me as well as you. All I can do is suggest some reasons.

I might be lucky. I don't see that and hang out with mostly only those types. But I would agree there are definitely some that ARE but I don't see them being the high-fiving dickheads outside the local laowai bar laughing it up.

1 - many of them have 'taken on' the bad culture. A Chinese spouse will maximise this to help
her Western husband cheat his Chinese employer and other FTs at his workplace by telling
him how to 'act' there.

Bizarre. I don't understand this because you seem to be saying you married a local Chinese girl? No, I definitely haven't seen this. Chinese women have a terrible ingrained habit of siding with Chinese OVER their foreign husbands TBH and in my experience/observation.

2 - others feel being married to a Chinese is a kind of salvation to shed their western
misfit stigma.

Its like I can't even imagine what that would mean? I dont know foreigners are looking for that? If they ARE looking for something to 'shed misfit stigma' they made ONE HELLUVA MISTAKE thinking marriage is going to doing anything but take that insecurity to entirely new heights. Imagine that guy (the misfit looking to fit in) is now at some Chinese village where he is a 'space alien' trying to have a village wedding!!! Holy hell now you have to fit in with a Chinese family.

So again, im confused because if you did have that issue and you married a local you'd well know thats not solving 'misfit' problems AT ALL and now you deal with your wife having to deal with having a strange 'misfit' marriage in the eyes of her friends and family (so you've doubled the misfit issue AND magnified it).

3 - still others feel very insecure here in China and need a spouse's help to allow them to
survive in many aspects of daily life.

Well it DOES help to have a wife but that applies to everywhere. Your Dad was not necessarily 'very insecure in your hometown' and needed to marry your mom was he?

It certainly is helpful to have a local wife helping out but see.. again, im really confused because if you were married to a local Chinese woman you just found out you now have WAY MORE RESPONSIBILITIES AND TASKS than you ever had before .... and that surely includes now baffling Visa and citizenship paperwork.

4 - a Chinese spouse treats a foreigner very well indeed, even a rotter of a husband,
compared to how a western wife will treat him. She will put up with much more BS
including drunkenness etc than a western wife would.
etc etc.

Again, holy hell I don't know what 1-in-a-million GEM of a local Chinese woman you married but you should probably keep her because you have no idea how lucky you are!

Oh hell no to this at all - Chinese wives most definitely do NOT hold Western husbands to lower standards and some very good arguments can be made that the near opposite is true. They will NOT tolerate the kind of standard drunkeness of a foreigner as they would a Chinese and a whole lot can be said about xiaosans and massage parlors which foreign husbands CANNOT even consider without death coming there way. Jealousy is (if anything) tripled on a foreign husband with near psychotic suspicion of his behavior.

So wow you are way wrong there BUT if you married a girl who does hold you to just EVEN standards then hallelujah and do not take that for granted because you are lucky!

Chinese women btw will also tend to expect their foreign husbands quickly adhere to Chinese rules, culture, that they themselves wont change for the foreigner AND dont get started on how they expect foreign men to have much more money.

I needed a wife, and a free reign re my employment. No medicals or release
letter BS.

Here again baffling that you married a local Chinese and then wrote this. You most definitely do not have free reign on employment and your Q-visa is canceled when you get a Z-Visa (which you still require). Including 'release forms' AND yes you did and do need a MEDICAL for a spouse visa. You do every year as anyone else.

As for 'free reign re employment you have no free reign anything. While it IS true someone might work/be hired without a Z-visa this is just as easily done to anyone on an L-Visa. Either way its the same thing. Having a spouse visa just means you did MORE PAPERWORK because Q-visa required you and everything + fees + medical + then HER Hukou issues too!

However, being below the radar and the bad culture here allowed me to survive, with the
help of my illegal employment thanks to my wife, which meant my employers had
compromised themselves, and therefore couldn't wield the big stick against me.

Again, this doesn't even make sense. You cannot get a job any easier because you have a Q-visa. It does absolutely zero to increase your hiring appeal and it might hurt because in fact they know you are not reliant on the school to keep a visa. But either way there is no 'thanks to your wife' here at all.

As for this idea they 'cant wield a big stick' in fact they can get in trouble AS CAN YOU for working without a Z-visa but unlike a single guy you cannot just bugger off home or Thailand alone. YOU have to be very concerned BECAUSE if you get kicked from the country - your Chinese wife may not be able to follow you home (without a visa to your home country).

So, I have no idea what kind of spouse experience you had but count yourself lucky because almost nothing you said here is true for the average married 'Q-Visa' person at all!

Yes, why expats with Chinese spouses come across as smug and arrogant, AS A RULE, in your view is indeed a mystery to me as well as you. All I can do is suggest some reasons.

1 - many of them have 'taken on' the bad culture. A Chinese spouse will maximise this to help her Western husband cheat his Chinese employer and other FTs at his workplace by telling him how to 'act' there.
2 - others feel being married to a Chinese is a kind of salvation to shed their western misfit stigma.
3 - still others feel very insecure here in China and need a spouse's help to allow them to survive in many aspects of daily life.
4 - a Chinese spouse treats a foreigner very well indeed, even a rotter of a husband, compared to how a western wife will treat him. She will put up with much more BS including drunkenness etc than a western wife would.
etc etc.

Personally I have met many insincere and sneaky foreigners, barefaced liars and self-serving people among the FTs here over the years, married to Chinese and not. I found some of them to be bigger assholes than the Chinese. Dead simple in my case for having married a Chinese. I needed a wife, and a free reign re my employment. No medicals or release letter BS. Truth be told, I should have been dismissed summarily and prevented from continuing my teaching 'career' in China on 6 separate occasions over the years. However, being below the radar and the bad culture here allowed me to survive, with the help of my illegal employment thanks to my wife, which meant my employers had compromised themselves, and therefore couldn't wield the big stick against me. I am disintersted in high living and being high end. Buying a flat in the backwaters didn't cost me an arm and a leg. Each person to his/her own priorities - that's the crux of the matter.

Anyways, for me, it's all over now re my teaching, and I've no regrets. Thanks for responding.

That also goes for foreigners in China married to Chinese women. They are also just guests
and could be kicked out at any time. They should think about that as many are arrogant.

BS, mate!

I'm well over 60, and recently retired from teaching here in China, after years and years of illegal teaching while being married to a Chinese spouse, still am BTW. I never was nabbed once for same, and though the immigration officials must have been very suspicious of me for a lot of years, re my prevoius L, F visas/marital RPs, they haven't ever tried to take any deportation action against me.

Granted, in the event of a war between China and the west, I could be in trouble visa/detention-wise. However, I think such a conflict is highly unlikely.

Just for the record, I've taught illegally in 10 provinces/auto regions before my retirement, which is continuing here in China. Maybe the duration and geographical scope of my illegal teaching in China deserves an entry in the Guinness Book of Records! I think I've every right to be arrogant!

Postscript - I DO NOT ADVISE ANYONE TO TEACH ILLEGALLY IN CHINA THESE DAYS!

That also goes for foreigners in China married to Chinese women. They are also just guests and could be kicked out at any time. They should think about that as many are arrogant.

@Sharp

You are correct in what you say and I agree totally. However, if I hear one more Chinese person say 'We must be right because we have 5000 years of culture' then please don't blame me if I go into a murderous rampage !

Sure, China has a LONG history, but 5000 years is a bit over the top since most experts believe it to be closer to 4000 years

That said, it was around 125,000 years ago that homo sapiens first appeared in Hunan province so I guess that will lay claim to some, that China therefore has 125,000 years of history !!

Like many other foreigners in China, I have been laughed at, pointed at and spat at; sat in cafe's and restaurants feeling like I'm an animal in a zoo due to the constant stares and snide remarks, I've been pushed in front of and had my 'personal space' invaded on more than one occasion. The pollution, the spitting and people on their mobile phones shouting as if they are using 2 bean cans a piece of string are all part of everyday life in China

But there remains one thing that we can do that Chinese people cannot do.....If we don't like it, we can leave!

What I watch for is the total lack of 'learning' and then I watch what happens when things level off. I watch if a building is being maintained at much slower rates than its decaying.

What might happen is you see that but we also see the brand new supertower going up and say 'Okay.. well look China is still improving overall' but then I watch that new supertower for a year and see how its falling apart and degenerating faster than its being kept up. in less than a year more walls look bad than new. More LED lights are never replaced. More fuckups are done to it than additions. more parts are closed than opening. Watch for that. I dont really mean just buildings either but 'everything' is that way.

I'd like to think China is just having a lull in the waves but ultimately moving forward and upward but..

..i see signs, call it part intuition, part evidence, but I don't know if the great rising dragon is happening for much longer. It might need to roll back under the water to fight its own tail for a while.

So China is NOT our country - right?

Yep it certainly isn’t.....and I am so HAPPY

China has many faults (as most of us know) Western men are stereotyped insofar as we want to sleep with as many Chinese women in the shortest possible time, or we are super-rich, a ‘green-card’ out of China etc etc.

Chinese authorities seem to make it harder and harder each year for westerners to come here to work (despite there being a screaming shortage of ESL teachers) and sometimes China can be a very frustrating place

But often we either don’t KNOW what to expect when we arrive in China, or we are so self-centred that we expect everything to be the same as it is ‘back home’

Recently I went into a bar in Jiangsu and a Chinese guy (a little drunk) walked over and we had a very short conversation - as follows -
‘I hate western countries’
‘Why?’
‘Because you are so FREE!”
‘Freedom?’...............Don’t make me laugh !!!!!

In China, cafes and bars close when the last customer leaves or is thrown out for being too drunk. In the west, customers are kicked out at ‘closing time’ because the authorities say that they cannot be served a nanosecond after the clock strikes.......

I don’t see fat, spotty 18-year-old McDonald retirees joining the fun-police and patrolling beaches all day to make sure no-one has more than one bottle of wine. (Perth, Australia)

I don’t see these drop-kicks outside the doors of the international airport waiting for the weary traveller who has just flown halfway round the world to light up a duty-free Marlbro within 50 metres of the exit.

I don’t see 6-foot tall coppers hiding behind a tree with a speed gun waiting to catch a motorist doing 1kph over the limit.

I don’t see multanova speed cameras on long, straight stretches of country highways waiting to flash the speeding motorist in the interests of ‘safety’

I don’t hear about policemen being paid a bonus for the number of fines they issue each day and I don’t see people being arrested for checking the time on their mobile phone while they are sitting at red traffic lights

When I turn on the TV I don’t see one political party leader doing his best to discredit another party leader because he tried a bit of marijuana when he was 16 or got a blow-job from the village bike at his 21st birthday party.

I don’t see the so-called ‘luxuries’ of the working man (beer and cigarettes) taxed to the hilt so that he cannot afford to relax at home in peace and quiet before he goes to bed

I don’t see the price of petrol going through the roof in order to pay for the ravenous expense accounts of government bureaucrats

What I see are hard-working people going about their everyday lives and doing their best to provide for themselves and their family...... without interruption from the ‘PC Brigade’ who try to convince us they are doing us all a favour by intruding on our lives

The crazy thing is...........our forefathers FOUGHT for this ‘freedom’

It just becomes a way-of-life and we just accept it as being the ‘norm’

The political correctness brigade has gone way too far. While the original intent of political correctness may have been good, by way of encouraging tact and sensitivity to others' feelings around issues of gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, physical abilities etc, the effect of political correctness has made everyone avoid these topics altogether, thus hindering our ability to feel comfortable living and working with those who are different from us. It's gone so far that political correctness has become a bigger problem than the issues it was intended to address.

Recently, a guy from Fort Gay in America was banned by Microsoft when he tried to register his X-box online. Microsoft said that the word ‘gay’ was not acceptable under any circumstances.

People who dressed up as Santa Claus in Australia were told to say ‘Ha ha ha’ to children rather than the more traditional ‘Ho ho ho’ because ‘Ho ho ho’ sounds too much like the American (not Australian) word for ‘hooker’

In Britain, the kids’ nursery rhyme ‘Baa Baa Black Sheep’ has been officially changed to ‘Baa Baa Little Sheep’ and someone actually tried to outlaw the words ‘master’ and ‘slave’ from computer hard-drive labels.

The word ‘manhole’ has been changed to ‘utility hole’ and ‘brainstorming’ has been changed to ‘thought showers’ so as not to ‘offend’ epileptics

A UK Job Centre refused an advert from a recruiter because they asked for ‘reliable, hardworking people’ - the refusal came because it may cause ‘offence’ to lazy unreliable people.

The classic British dessert ‘spotted dick’ is now known as ‘spotted Richard’ and Christmas trees are now called ‘holiday trees’ so as not to ‘offend’ a non-Christian
Political correctness hasn’t just gone mad - it’s become destructive in the west and it’s killing us

So for me, if this is ‘freedom’ then I’ll sooner live in a ‘red flag’ country for the rest of my life rather than have 18-year-old spotty fat kids tell me where and when I can enjoy myself

And what about Europe? All bananas must be straight and all apples must be the same size, colour and shape - who thought that was a good idea? Bureaucratic monkeys !

Greenpeace are actually PROUD of the fact they stop FREE GM food from reaching starving people in Africa

Freedom???.......Don’t make me laugh !

A robber in America broke into a house while the family were on holiday. He ended up in the garage and he couldn’t get out because the door was jammed shut. He was in the garage for a total of 8 days and survived on dog food and coca cola. After the family returned from holiday, the robber successfully sued them for USD$500,000 for ‘unlawful imprisonment’

An American woman successfully sued a supermarket because she tripped over a small child. The child was her OWN !

.......and finally........another American woman slipped on on a wet floor in a restaurant and broke her ankle. She sued the restaurant and won $200,000.

Why was the floor wet? 30 seconds before she slipped, she threw a drink over her boyfriend during an argument!

So before you bemoan the ‘bad things’ about China, ask yourself why are you here and what have you left behind?