martin hainan
- 2016-03-03
but allow me to ask you a question.....
If you are a native English speaker, then you would have been educated in a native-speaking
school, You would have learned about verbs and adjectives and nouns and pronouns etc etc
etc
But 20 years after leaving school, if you were NOT a teacher, would you remember what an
'adverb' is? What about a 'preposition'?
Twenty years after leaving school I began to study Chinese. As a language student again, of course I had to learn about adverbs and prepositions in the Chinese language. To effectively use them, I certainly needed to know what their function in a sentence is; if the teacher was teaching me fully in Chinese, I would need to recognize the Chinese words for adjective and prepositions. Fortunately, my Chinese language teachers were familiar with English terminology for parts of speech and verb tenses.
Our students are not walking around twenty years after graduation. They are students learning a foreign language.
Too many FTs have never learned a second language. Being a native language speaker, even a well educated one, does not prepare you in TESOL. The experience of learning a second language is invaluable to FTs. Without either training in TESOL or the instructive experience of learning a second language, we often merit the label of dancing monkeys.
paul fox
- 2016-03-03
Martin....GR8 2 C Ur reply
Kids cringe when the word 'grammar' is spoken by the teacher. I know I always did when I was a schoolkid
I totally respect what the Dr wrote and it is 100% important in the classroom IF we are teaching linguistics.....but most of us are not
'Correct' grammar is important in written English - not so much (these days) in spoken English - although if your grammar in spoken English is too bad, you are likely to appear uneducated.
The difficult question for all FT's is where to draw the line in the classroom. Sure, grammar is important, but language is constantly evolving and changing even though the 'grammar police' insist on certain 'rules' that should never change
We all have our own teaching styles and we all teach what we feel is important - but allow me to ask you a question.....
If you are a native English speaker, then you would have been educated in a native-speaking school, You would have learned about verbs and adjectives and nouns and pronouns etc etc etc
But 20 years after leaving school, if you were NOT a teacher, would you remember what an 'adverb' is? What about a 'preposition'?
Probably not - but does it matter? - How many native English speakers know what the little 'dot' above the lower-case 'i' and 'j' is called?
Most would say it's a 'dot', but like everything else in English, we must give it a name.....(for those that don't know, it's called a 'tittle')
These kids are trying their best to learn a second language and to become as fluent as possible. The Chinese teachers must teach them the 'why's-and-wherefore's' - do they need it from us as well?
Sometimes it's important to teach them WHY we use English the way we do, but most of the time I feel it's important to teach them more of the 'HOW we use it' as opposed to the reasons why - mostly because the 'why' is often not important
If they choose to use 'have' then use 'done it' - if they choose NOT to use 'have' then use 'did it'..........why? - who cares 'why'? (unless they ask)
English is a complex mess of Latin, French and Germanic with words that are spelled nothing like they should be - take words such as 'Quinoa' and 'Hyperbole' - or what about 'ballet, chalet and segue' ?
Great and meat and threat, etc etc etc............it's never-ending......by the time you have explained the 'why' we say it like that, then the lesson is over and they have learned 3 words instead of 20
Why does 'enamour' rhyme with 'hammer' and words spelled the same way like 'does' and 'toes' don't rhyme at all?
Because English is a total 'mess' and we have to do our best to straighten it out for ESL students
It's the same with 'phonetics' - a strange 'language' in itself so I prefer to teach them 'phonics' (which is not always accurate) - but it certainly helps them pronounce 'hyperbole' as 'high per bo lee' and 'quinoa' as 'keen wah' - and then there's 'grate and meet and thret'
OK, so it doesn't work with ALL words, but certainly it works with a great percentage and it's much easier for them to learn
Once they have a 'grip' on 'H8', 'GR8' and 'M8' then it's fun-in-the-classroom....WTF? OMG!.....can't W8 2 C U Tmrw......
martin hainan
- 2016-03-02
This poor bastard in his seven years of teaching Chinese students in Universities has encountered a few students interested in complex grammatical English language issues. Unfortunately, only a subset of this already small group is able to understand explanations of these grammar points when expressed purely in English. I have never taught advanced English majors or graduate students of English in a first level university, but I suspect that even there few students have this level of English language ability.
Imagine studying Chinese grammar in a classroom where the professor explained details of Chinese grammar exclusively in Chinese.
Chinese teachers teaching English grammar present most of the detailed rules and categories in Chinese and English, making the concepts more accessible to the students. Foreign Teachers would be well served in learning how to identify parts of speech and verb tenses in spoken Chinese, but I suspect few make that effort. FTs in China are generally relegated to teaching oral English precisely because they are unable to assist Chinese students in their understanding of grammar in the student's native language. As I have written before, there is no 'immersion' teaching of English in EFL. It is the FT that is immersed.
I'm sure the Dr.'s posting was directed to readers of this forum, not as a lesson plan.
For FTs that truly are interested in modern grammar, Pinker's recent book "The Sense of Style" is accessible and entertaining.
Paul Fox
- 2016-03-02
Dr.....
May I ask you a sensible question?
Who [edited]?
I really don't want to sound insulting, but why do we need to blind these poor bastards with even more technical stuff?
Chinese - English teachers already blow their minds with 12 tenses, when often 3 is enough - If it's happened, it's PAST - if it hasn't happened yet, it's FUTURE and if it's happening now it's PRESENT.... why do they need to know the difference between the 'Simple Past' and the 'Past Participle' ?
Sure, there's a difference between 'I did it' and 'I have done it' but why confuse them with REASONS ?
Teach them that 'I have did it' is wrong and tell them 'No why' (which they seem to understand perfectly)
Anyone who has read the book 'Robinson Crusoe' should be aware of the famous phrase 'it was violent hot' - yet if a student said that you would tell them they are wrong.....why?....because language is constantly evolving
They are more interested in keeping up with modern terms such as 'I'm eating my lunch al-desko' or 'I have a new e-quaintance' as opposed to linguistics and mechanics of language that tells us WHY we do something - who gives a shit why?
Why does wood burn on a fire?
Well, let's see.....wood comes from trees and trees are predominantly made from carbon. Carbon molecules LOVE to be attached to oxygen molecules and they stick together very tightly, so how can trees separate the carbon molecule from the oxygen molecule?
Well here's the sun.... the sun creates heat that allows the trees to throw away the oxygen molecule into the air and keep the carbon. Add to that the water - which although it comes out of the ground, it doesn't really - it comes out of the air - well, the sky
So a bit of wood is essentially carbon and water without the oxygen molecules that it loves so much
Fire needs oxygen to burn so the carbon molecules in wood are happily re-united with the oxygen molecules that they miss so much and the heat and light that a fire generates is essentially stored sunlight
As interesting as it may be, do we NEED to know it? Or do we ONLY need to know that wood burns on a fire?
English is a difficult language at best.... native speakers take it for granted and the fact that we DO SAY something is often far more important than the reasons WHY
Who cares why?
As the Chinese always say ....'No Why!'
No offence intended
If they want to KNOW why, then by all means tell them - if they don't ask then they don't want to know - simple!