mj
- 2006-07-16
first point... koreans and chinese are highly descriminatory when it comes to gender. they are totally against thomosexuals. i ahve a friend who's a gay but he has to control himself for the sake of his job.
next, yep! they offer a variety of benefits but alot of these would eventually change once you are here. they could retract their statements in a wisp.
finally, seldom do u find a school who would really guarantee you of these stuff.
so if u are working in a good school just stick there,
a piece of advice
Raoul Duke
- 2006-07-15
My experience is in China; I've known a number of Korea veterans and I gather that many things are similar there.
You've opened a big, big topic and it's really impossible to deal with all of the aspects at once.
In either country, it's important to try and guard yourself against being ripped off. It happens here every day. You have to be very, very careful dealing with schools in this part of the world.
First of all, if the ads don't name a school, odds are that they are from recruiters and in that case you don't want to pursue them. The litany of abuse by recruiters in both countries goes on forever. Recruiters often represent schools that can't fill their teaching slots on their own, often because they are in terrible cities and/or pay crappy salaries and/or have a bad history of teacher treatment. It's a SELLER'S MARKET for English teachers here; there are zillions of unfilled jobs to be had here. You don't need a recruiter. Go on the internet and find the jobs listed in a thousand places. If they don't name a school and don't give you a contact directly at the school, forget it and go on to the next ad. If you're not sure, ask them if they are an employee of the school in question. You might still get ripped off going direct, but the chances of this are a bit lower than they will be working with a recruiter.
Beware of bait-and-switch tactics, especially if you're coming in from outside China or Korea. Baiting-and-swithing is a beloved tactic of recruiters! There are many cases where people have been lured here with glowing ads full of promises, only to find themselves being coerced to sign a contract for something very, very different. Even if you have a contract full of wonderful stuff, you might have a hard time getting them to live up to the contract. Contracts are merely suggestions in this part of the world. Of course, don't sign anything that doesn't give you what you were promised. If a contract isn't honored, make noise and give them a reasonable time to fix things. If it doesn't happen, STOP TEACHING until the promises are fulfilled. Be prepared to leave town if you have to...there's a lot of other jobs to be had and some will be much better.
Another place to beware is things that you get at the end of your contract...bonuses, airfares, and so on. Many school owners have made an art form out of finding ways to not pay these, including such tactics as firing you for "poor performance" a week before your contract ends. Try to negotiate earlier payment of these items, and try to avoid having too much at stake on the end of the contract. The school is indeed entitled to some means of ensuring that you will honor your contract in full, but then so are you.
Mos schools will indeed honor such terms as an apartment (try to get a FULLY PRIVATE apartment; many are shared!), a Z Visa/Residence Permit (EXTREMELY important!), travel allownaces, and so on. NEVER take a full-time contract that doesn't include a residence permit and either an apartment, an adequate housing allowance, or a salary high enough to let you rent your own. If possible, inspect provided housing before you sign anything. Renting an apartment in China is quite a story in itself but should be told in another thread.
There's so much to talk about with respect to job ads and contracts. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
Not being a 20-something should not be a problem for you. Being gay could be. It still has a high stigma here and could cost you your job if the school finds out. It's truly a case-by-case situation...some schools (indeed, some whole towns) will totally freak out at the slightest hint that you might be gay, others will be more tolerant as long as you do good work and are discreet. It would probably help you if you are careful to not involve students or Chinese co-workers at the school where you are employed...there are NO secrets in this country. It will probably help you if you stick to larger, more progressive towns rather than going into the sticks. Shanghai and Suzhou are reportedly among the more gay-friendly places in China. China does have a gay community, both foreign and domestic, and my gay friends here have eventually found ways to connect to it.
The advice of this old flaming heterosexual is that no matter where you go, you play these cards very, very close to your chest indeed.
There's great info at this site and I am a regular here myself. If I may be so bold, you can also find a lot of information about living and working in China on my forum, Raoul's China Expat Saloon. You can take a look at our public side at http://chinateachers.proboards17.com/index.cgi You will find a lot more info there than I could ever load into one post or one thread.
Raoul Duke
- 2006-07-15
This originally appeared on my own site and has since appeared on other sites as well. Some have found it useful so I'm posting it here for you. Of course, it's only a general summary. It is China-specific but much can be adapted easily to other countries and much will be true anywhere you go.
It also assumes you will be following up by discussing things with the good folks at Raoul's China Expat Saloon, which I don't normally come here to shill even if its URL does happen to be http://chinateachers.proboards17.com/index.cgi.
Before pursuing a job- or certainly before accepting one- you might want to consider a few things about the job ad.
If you can't evaluate these things with the information you have, get the information you need. Some things you can get from our resident experts here at the Saloon, or by visiting other web sites. Other things you'll have to get from the school; if the school is reluctant to give you a direct answer you might consider that a warning.
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES
Note- I suggest you research environmental issues independently of the prospective school. At best they will but the best possible spin on things. At worst they will lie like a rug...
- Can you hack the weather where this job is? China has just about every weather pattern under the sun...from Siberian cold to stinking jungle heat. If you don't know the city, ask around.
- How polluted is the city in question? All Chinese cities have environmental problems, but some are just beyond the pale. Again, do the homework. Don't find out the hard way that your new home town centers around the world's largest soft-coal-fired cadmium smelting plant.
- How isolated will you be? Do you have to travel 200 miles by bus to buy a stick of butter or have a conversation in English? Find out. A lot of people come here and say they want to immerse themselves in "The Real China." Many come here, find The Real China, and realize to their horror that they definitely DON'T want to immerse themselves in it. Having a few other foreigners around can definitely be a real and valuable comfort.
JOB-RELATED ISSUES
- Is the salary livable and fair? Costs of living vary wildly across China. Make sure you can live decently on the salary you're given. Assuming you didn't just come to China for a job, this should allow a little fun money and enough to save up for traveling.
Definitely DO NOT fall for the hooey some job ads gush about the average local living on 300 RMB a month or some such. Such people's lives are long grey tubes, spent squatting on the floor, eating rice and cabbage in a tiny, squalid, bare concrete box. You don't want this; you'll need many times this "average local income" to achieve a level of comfort you can tolerate.
My personal take is that you should never take anything under 4000 RMB a month (with a free apartment) in a university or public school. This salary is insulting, but many public schools and unis are under regulatory limits that won't let them pay more. For a private school, I can't recommend anything under 6000 a month (add about 2000 to this in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, or Shenzhen) with a free apartment or separate housing allowance. These figures are just MY personal guidelines for recommendations; what you need may be different.
- Does the ad make clear how many hours you have to work each week? 4K a month isn't too bad for 12 hours a week. It just sucks for 25 a week. Also, be clear on TOTAL hours as opposed to CLASSROOM hours. A current trend among private schools is to have you teaching 25 hours a week or less, BUT you're expected to hang around the school for 40+ hours a week. This makes it very difficult to find outside part-time work...make sure the pay reflects these hours, too.
- If the job is full-time, they should provide you a Z Visa (if you are entering the country) and a legal residence permit and work permit for the city you live and work in, along with the physical exams and paperwork attached to them. Bar none. No excuses. If they can't or won't do this for you, you don't want to work there. If an ad says they will "sponsor" your visa/permits, take it to mean that you must pay for it and do all the legwork yourself, and run away. Don't go there. If you live in China and work for a Chinese organization of any kind, and you don't have a residence permit, you are breaking the law and subject to prosecution. Period.
- Does the school have a bad reputation and a long history of teacher conflict? Get online and do the homework. A great place to start is our partner site, Nate's China School Review, at http://www.chinaschoolreview.net.
- How many days a week do you work? 5 is average, but do make sure. Having consecutive days off is awfully nice...pesonally I need 1 day to rest and then another to actually enjoy.
- Is housing provided by the school? What's the housing like? Make sure you get a decent place to go home to. Note that some schools only provide shared apartments; you'll get a private bedroom but share the rest of the house with someone else. If there's no housing, make sure you get a housing allowance OR that your salaryis high enough to let you rent a place and still live.
- Is your airfare reimbursed? If so, how much, and when? Some places call it a bonus rather than an airfare reimbursement....doesn't matter really as long as you get the money. Make sure you get the money even if you're already in China, even if you take another year with the same school. Should you be paid less just because you're already here?
- Are holidays paid? How many per year? At least 15 days is typical at most schools...a week each at Spring Festival, May Day, and National Day. Note that not all of this may be paid...many schools add days to the legal holiday, then expect you to work extra days to make them up. No, you don't get a vote here. Yes, it sucks...but it's reality here.
- Are taxes deducted from your salary? If so, how much?
- Will you be working in the same building every day, or are you subject to being farmed out to local public schools? Most teachers come to resent the constant commuting required if you work in multiple locations. Some private schools make a lot of money farming out teachers to local public schools, and assume you won't mind the added inconvenience a bit. This may sound like a small deal, but when you're waiting for a bus for the 4th time today in Harbin in January (temperature, -45C with a howling wind) you may find it growing in importance.
- Is the contract for a full calendar year? Many schools write a 10-month contract, and assume you will just sod off over the summer. Some teachers WANT this, so they can travel or return home for the summer. Do YOU want this? If not, can you get a 12-month contract?
- Is there a trial period? If so, do you get your full salary for the trial period? If the trial salary is lower, can you live on it? A new trend with schools is that you work for 2-3 months at a low salary, then complete the year at the salary they advertised. This has little to do with evaluating you, especially after the first month, and everything to do with saving money. Personally, I will not take this unless the salary difference is very small. My take is: pay me my salary. If you don't like me, fire me, but don't rip me off for 2-3 months.
- Is some living assistance available? Unless you arrive here speaking Chinese and knowing your way around the Chinese way of doing things, you're going to need help running errands and finding your way around. Make sure some help is available.
- Are there other benefits? Some schools offer meals, basic medical coverage, transportation benefits, paid utilities, internet access, and more. What exactly will you get? Don't make too much out of free Chinese lessons (which many schools never get around to actually offering, and often aren't very good when they do happen) or school-sponsored trips (which often serve to try and restrict your individual travel, and to provide a boondoggle for the Chinese staff).
Remember: Many things are negotiable. If you don't get what you want, try it. If they want you badly enough, many schools will find a way to make you happy. If they won't at least get you close enough, walk away. It's a seller's market for foreign English teachers...there are a million unfilled jobs out there. Don't get stuck with a bad deal.
_________________
"Here in China we're not just teaching...we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!"
Frank
- 2006-07-15
Hello, Tom!
I tried sending private message to you, but was unable to do so...(sorry, folks!)
I am an older American working in China for the past three years. I have seen lots of things and have much to tell you and suggestions to make, but in your case, I'd prefer to do it privately, OK? Also, I'm very busy today but I will write you a long message later. Please confirm that you agree with this arrangement by replying to my email:
(And please remind me who you are, as I recieve tons of email messages.)
Thanks! I look forward to friendly exchange with you!
Good luck!
Frank D
I have some questions if anyone would be willing to help with info. I keep seeing all these ads on Craigs List here in Portland, where I live, about teaching in China or Korea. They make it sound great. There is one today for China that sounds great, offers a free apartment, free air tickets, some travel expenses paid for winter holiday, some meals covered, etc. Are these offers on the up and up? The ads do not give the names of the schools.
Also, I am wondering if I would be okay in China or Korea? For one thing, I am gay. Now, I would not walk around advertising this, but I'm sure any western coworkers would be able to tell and I might at some point, want to date or go to a bar, if that's even a possibility.
Also, I am a mid-life career changer so not the typical twenty-something age, though I do have a youthful personality and don't mind running around with younger people.
Does anyone have any thoughts? info? anything to offer? Thanks very much!