amused
- 2016-05-11
"In conclusion you may want to question the importance of most people in China."
Perhaps I am alone in my opinion that I have neither the educational credentials nor adequate personal experience to "question the importance" of even the small cohort of individuals that I have met during my decade in China.
"Most people in China" would comprise a population of more than 700,000,000. How would one go about "questioning their importance"?
I spent over 40 years living in the U.S; how would I go about "questioning the importance" of the U.S. population?
Rather than a deficit of education and experience, viewing this "questioning" process as beyond my ability may have more to do with my inadequate accumulation of arrogance.
Caring
- 2016-05-11
Not only FTs and the eslteachersboard but also the locals and their education, talent, skills or opinions are irrelevant. Young generations in the country are brought up on false pretences, given knowledge they don't need in practice and they are put into the workforce based on their loyalties to superiors rather than anything else. The scores of low quality products and copying are for reasons.
The reasons why Chinese want to stick to groups are way beyond what you are saying. Attempting to stand out of the group or offering contrasting views is often frowned upon, so the "adequate satisfaction" comes from the assurances that folks may keep their jobs and faces. Chinese usually don't share ideas as they follow their leaders whom they aren't supposed to oppose. The "distress" you are suggesting is natural given the poor working environment, ethics and business culture.Nijao's meaning is anyone's guess, but the recognition that Westerners look for relevance in the nature of their individual work while Chinese find innate adequate satisfaction in being part of the working group and this cultural distinction acting to cause FT distress in China is an important observation.
However I don't know how many "worst FTs" China has, I see that some teachers want to make a difference in the young people's lives. As they try and try they frequently are compromised by the local approach to how things are done. This brings me to the local teachers who have to follow their rigid standards or else. They often are tied to their employers beyond our understanding. Anyhow, what "litters this forum" is trolling, ignorance and disrespect which eslteachersboard is so full of.Even the worst FTs usually feel some pride in the nature of his/her work in the classroom. But the classroom experience is never adequate to satisfy his thirst for 'relevance'; he hungers for some institutional and student acknowledgement of his importance in a country where individual accomplishment is subsumed by the group. This unrequited hunger often results in the anger at China that litters this forum.
In conclusion you may want to question the importance of most people in China. Whether FTs are just "oral teachers" or not ought to be looked at as well.In reality, the FT in China is neither relevant nor important. The classroom space/time moment with its ethereal opportunity either empowers a teacher or not.
nijao
- 2016-05-08
//The problem with double negatives in non-native speakers is not grammatical; double negative use by Chinese speakers impacts meaning and comprehension. Misuse of double negatives obscures understanding.//
Good point. Most English English teachers try to keep it simple and not confusing and illogical. Most advance English students keep getting confused when they watch movies and listen to music in English with double negatives spoken. Best.
amused
- 2016-05-08
I choose not to 'teach grammar' in China because Chinese teachers do a relatively good job teaching students English grammar and I believe, as you suggest, that grammar is not important in oral language. Chinese students are already hesitant to risk speaking because of their fear of making errors; additional pressure is counterproductive in supporting their oral language practice.
The problem with double negatives in non-native speakers is not grammatical; double negative use by Chinese speakers impacts meaning and comprehension. Misuse of double negatives obscures understanding.
If a Chinese student says to me: "I don't really not understand."... I'm lost.
nijao
- 2016-05-08
//Sometimes my students' Chinglish stumbles disconcertingly onto elemental core meaning that native speakers overlook with their rote patter of nonsense. One example is a student's powerful use of 'like' and 'love' as intransitive verbs.//
You seem to be a good grammar teacher. Grammar ? For ya, what's wrong with using double negatives sometimes? Sample, the British singer of the rolling Stones sings, I can't get no satisfaction. And US President Obama keep using them in his speaches. Why the hipocrasy of native speakers correcting esl learner when there are disagreements.double negatives are part of the English language depending of the situation the speaker is using them.even William Shakespeare used triple negatives in his famous writings.
nijao
- 2016-05-07
//In reality, the FT in China is neither relevant nor important. The classroom space/time moment with its ethereal opportunity either empowers a teacher or not.//
Good post. By reading many of the post here, I think the last thing FT teachers care is about their classroom. Most of the comments are to belittle China in general. The question is, why to be in foreign country out of personal choice, so different in all aspects taking all this abuse. What happen with the famous western saying, when you in Rome... It seem that even that saying is bs.
Best to you.
amused
- 2016-05-07
care about relevance
Sometimes my students' Chinglish stumbles disconcertingly onto elemental core meaning that native speakers overlook with their rote patter of nonsense. One example is a student's powerful use of 'like' and 'love' as intransitive verbs.
Nijao's meaning is anyone's guess, but the recognition that Westerners look for relevance in the nature of their individual work while Chinese find innate adequate satisfaction in being part of the working group and this cultural distinction acting to cause FT distress in China is an important observation.
Even the worst FTs usually feel some pride in the nature of his/her work in the classroom. But the classroom experience is never adequate to satisfy his thirst for 'relevance'; he hungers for some institutional and student acknowledgement of his importance in a country where individual accomplishment is subsumed by the group. This unrequited hunger often results in the anger at China that litters this forum.
In reality, the FT in China is neither relevant nor important. The classroom space/time moment with its ethereal opportunity either empowers a teacher or not.
It appears that westerners in Asia.China care about relevance more than ever before.
Why?