Thanks for your response.

I too would not wish to enter into contract with anyone unless I intend to honour it. I also have to be as sure as I can that the employer intends to honour it too.

Moreover, even though you may be comfortable with trying to give an errant employer a dose of his own medicine - beware. He may have bought and paid for far greater influence than you'll ever have Under those conditions - you will lose! You're on his territory, remember.

My advice remains the same - walk away from them. I will expand that a little and further advise you to take your time to find a good school yourself. One that will give you a proper job, treat you well and pay you on time.

Recruiting agencies in China are overwhelmingly a bad lot. You have done the right thing in asking for advice and in the space of around 48 hours, you have had three separate lots of it.

The three of us who have so far given you advice have varying amounts of Chinese experience and we are all independently saying the same thing. Stay away from this outfit! It's wise advice but of course it's you who has to decide whether you take it or ignore it.

John

John,

You may be surprised to learn that the rep that told me those negative things is, in fact, a CURRENT representative! And if he's telling me these things, well, that says something. But what exactly does it say? One, that he's being frank with me. But also, if he's willing to reveal that much, perhaps there's more that he's not telling me.

But his basic thesis for why I should deal with Campus Earth/Tang Yuan ANYWAY was:

1. While he had a couple of issues with them, they were resolved to his satisfaction.

2. In China, contracts are near meaningless anyway, in which case I could just find another job and walk away if I really disliked them that much. This way, I could just "use" CE/TY to get a visa and secure some immediate employment and residence.

Is there any merit to this viewpoint? Because believe me, I'm perfectly comfortable with turning the shenanigans of any employer, placement agency or culture back on them to my advantage, if they seek undue advantage from me.

Thanks,

Dusty

Hi, Dusty,

Your doubts and suspicions are fairly accurate. While there can often be problems between foreign teachers and school managers or administrators, I think most foreign teachers will advise you to avoid dealing with placement agencies. Ive had several teaching jobs in China during the past three years, and Ive never been hired through an agency the exception being the Chinese-operated agency in America that arranged my first job.

The U.S-based agency ultimately brought NO benefit to my virgin experience they only gummed up the works, as they say. They made a number of false promises to me, not the school itself. Im an older man with a few chronic but manageable diseases, and so I was very concerned about sustaining proper health care while working in China. The agent told me there was an on-campus clinic that could serve all, or most of my needs, and dispense many basic medicines easily. The reality however, was this: No on-campus clinic, no meds, nothing! And I was only provided a medical allowance of 500RMB per year! (I spend 1000RMB, on average per month, or more, on health care.)

His litany of lies ended up causing lots of problems between me the school. I did not hold the school directly responsible, but because they could not deliver things that had been emphatically promised to me by the agent, I decided not to continue with the school after two months.

In short, agents/agencies will tell you almost anything they think you want (or need) to hear, if they believe it will get you to agree to the job and sign a contract. In most cases, they make hefty commissions for procuring foreign teachers; Americans, Canadians, Brits, and Aussies, especially.

In my periodic searches for new teaching situations, I have had occasional dealings with agencies, but in the end, I have never become entangled with one. Its simply not necessarily or beneficial. They often will tell you that they can offer you and extra level of protection, or settle disputes on your behalf. Baloney! I seriously doubt they will come to your aid once theyve received their fee from the school. By that time, youre history to them, and you are left to fend for yourself if an employment/contract situation takes a turn for the worse. They can also impede salary negotiations because the school must pay the placement commission which often (and usually) lessens YOUR potential salary.

There are also agencies that will actually hire you but will farm you out to schools in the Shanghai area. This can be a potential nightmare, as you might end up travel 2 hours each way, each day to different area schools (and in China, travel time is usually not considered part of working time). Your working hours are your actual hours in the classroom.

Hopefully some other posters will offer you some guidance and perspective, but I expect a number of them will express sentiments and theories similar to mine. Pay careful attention to what the foreign teacher told you via e-mail recently. Do you always want to be drawing a line in the sand, or "flexing your muscles a bit" (as you say) to settle disagreements?

Good luck!

Frank

Teachers,

Has anyone dealt with Campus Earth (Tang Yuan)? Or do you know anyone that you can direct me to who has? They claim to be a placement agency that specializes in the Shanghai area. The pay and benfits they offer, seemingly, are comparable to what other employers offer around China.

But I worry because their advertisement was pulled from this very web site, though by whom and for what reason I do not know. Further, one of their own American reps has admitted to me by e-mail and telephone that he himself had runs-in with Campus Earth/Tang Yuan, but that if you just flex your muscles a bit, you'll get what you're owed. It seems risky, but then that has been the tenor I get from many teachers who've gone to China, irrespective of who the employer was.

Thanks Folks,

Dusty