'Watermark', by 'Enya'.

http://y.qq.com/portal/song/000uP7Qn31Zym1.html

Foxy, no watermark(s)! Oh dear!

Not good, I guess it wouldn't be hard to produce a forgery!

Good point! Fortunately, (for me), I am in a position to be able to address that issue. Watch this space mate.........

This is absolutely not correct.

And your reasons are.......?

What you said here......

FAOs are responsible for a variety of functions:
international students, partnerships with overseas institutions, student foreign study
opportunities, kissing the University president's ass, etc.

Parents have purposely sent their kids to schools that employ FT's. Therefore, the relevant FAO needs to get a white face in that classroom or face the wrath of the parents. The same may not be true for universities, but it certainly holds true for many middle/high school international departments.

Many FAO's go far beyond not 'relishing' dealing with FT's, I know several who actually hate it!
Even so, the need to get a FT into the classroom is the number 1 priority of many FAO's, especially at this time of year.

but FAO's in China NEED teachers, and since this
IS China, many of them will do whatever is necessary in order to get FT's into their
classrooms

This is absolutely not correct. FAOs are responsible for a variety of functions: international students, partnerships with overseas institutions, student foreign study opportunities, kissing the University president's ass, etc. Recruiting and managing the FTs is just one task that they are given by Deans and University Education committees. For many obvious reasons, they do not relish the responsibility of dealing with FTs. Many universities in China now have severely diminished the number of FTs that they recruit. I suspect that many are 'sitting out' recruiting new FTs this academic year to see how the new regulations are being implemented.

Private schools and their attack-dog recruiters, however, will behave as you have indicated, since they need dancing white faces to market their services.

OK, let's say I accept your point for a moment. Answer me this.....

Properly qualified western teachers, (as in qualified to teach in a NES classroom), are well out-of-their depth teaching ESL because they have no ESL qualifications. How does a degree in ballroom dancing, origami etc, make them a suitably qualified ESL teacher?
If the Chinese government are going to tighten-up on FT qualifications, then surely TESOL/TEFL/TESL should be addressed? Isn't it THOSE qualifications that should be verified and not some unrelated degree?

OK, so for non-NES I can see the reason. Demonstrating that they have a degree from a NES country certainly establishes, to a certain degree, their proficiency in English. However, without a PROPER TESOL qualification - and I don't mean a poxy, basic 120-hour online one, then they shouldn't go near a classroom IMHO.

China is not only going to lose dancing monkeys, it's also going to lose some damn good ESL teachers who have lots of experience. As I said in a previous post, bitching and whining about it isn't going to solve anything, but FAO's in China NEED teachers, and since this IS China, many of them will do whatever is necessary in order to get FT's into their classrooms. If that means forging docs, (as also previously witnessed and stated), then they will.

As for cost, aren't Chinese embassies are making a charge for authentication? My colleague was told that his fee covered the document agent, the government fee and the fee at the Chinese embassy.

Hi, Foxy! Please respond to my question:

Does your 'PROPER TESOL' document/transcript have watermarks or a watermark?

Ladies and gentlemen, the English of angels in action.

My error. Unfortunately I possess a sinner's eyesight.

Sticks out like a blind cobblers sore thumb if you can't teach in China, so I agree with you.

Many UK qualified teachers I had met there, (2 especially) always moaning and whinging, while others with no degree doing well.

S'pose it is true what they say about the younger teachers in the Uk, those who can do and those who can't.......

I am not aware of an embassy fee for degree verification. Even if there is one, it cannot be the rationale behind this new verification process; embassies are not profit making facilities.

Regulations are made as attempts to control behavior. Some work well. Some don't. I doubt that this one will be particularly effective, mostly because private language schools and recruiters will continue to act to subvert any regulations because the are quite willing to put their FTs at risk.

And yes: these regulations will act to diminish the number of FTs at universities and high schools.

You would write different regulations. I would too. But that's moot.

I've already expressed my belief that most universities and high schools are actually not too concerned about losing their FTs. The Chinese English teachers are happy to absorb the additional jobs and most Chinese teachers were never particularly happy about FTs on staff.

IF, and it's a big 'if', these universities and high schools want truly qualified foreign teachers next academic year, they can pay more and absorb costs. Maybe that will happen. I suspect not.

A friend of mine who graduated from university around the time JC played football for Jerusalem United, is now teaching at a university in China. Fair play to him, he completed a 240-hour advanced diploma in TESOL, but what he can remember about his university days could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp. This guy would rather teach in a uni for 6K a month than in a high school for twice that. Why? Who cares why?

Conversely, one of the best kindergarten teachers I have ever met has just been forced to go back to the UK. His only 'qualification' was that he's NES; his spelling is atrocious and he thinks 'grammar' is married to grandad. Yet if you saw this person in a kindy classroom full of 'littlies', then you'd be amazed. Kids loved him and he was superb!

But who 'teaches' in a kindy? Flash cards, songs and simple PPT's are all that's required. There's no 'academia', no homework, no assignments....
This guy would be well out of his depth in a primary school, let alone a uni, but he taught in China for 7 years and was extremely well-liked and successful at what he did.

My university-teacher friend would also be well out of his depth in a kindy. So what's the point here? Each to their own, I guess.

Dancing monkeys/deechers belong in scummy training centres, children's entertainers belong in kindergartens, and those of us with the required credentials that the government now want, wouldn't be seen dead in either.

Putting a law into place that requires us all the be 'pigeon-holed' in some little box somewhere is only going to increase corruption and law-breaking in China. At least that's how I see it!

FTs are not teachers, cannot write
English, cannot understand grammar, and have little or no general education. The
expensive tuition these parents were paying to educate their brats was a waste of their
money.

OK, let's say I accept your point for a moment. Answer me this.....

Properly qualified western teachers, (as in qualified to teach in a NES classroom), are well out-of-their depth teaching ESL because they have no ESL qualifications. How does a degree in ballroom dancing, origami etc, make them a suitably qualified ESL teacher?
If the Chinese government are going to tighten-up on FT qualifications, then surely TESOL/TEFL/TESL should be addressed? Isn't it THOSE qualifications that should be verified and not some unrelated degree?

OK, so for non-NES I can see the reason. Demonstrating that they have a degree from a NES country certainly establishes, to a certain degree, their proficiency in English. However, without a PROPER TESOL qualification - and I don't mean a poxy, basic 120-hour online one, then they shouldn't go near a classroom IMHO.

China is not only going to lose dancing monkeys, it's also going to lose some damn good ESL teachers who have lots of experience. As I said in a previous post, bitching and whining about it isn't going to solve anything, but FAO's in China NEED teachers, and since this IS China, many of them will do whatever is necessary in order to get FT's into their classrooms. If that means forging docs, (as also previously witnessed and stated), then they will.

As for cost, aren't Chinese embassies are making a charge for authentication? My colleague was told that his fee covered the document agent, the government fee and the fee at the Chinese embassy.

The new requirements in China, regarding document verification, is certainly one that is causing a huge stir. There appears to be no standardisation with respect to each and every province, and even less when it comes to the country of degree origin.

There is an 'official' website that outlines the procedure - this one applies to Queensland Australia - http://brisbane.china-consulate.org/eng/jbwzlm/lsfw/lsgzrz/t229932.htm#1

One example of a FT from Canada = He contacted a document agent who took his original degree to the Canadian government then to the Chinese embassy. All done in 48 hours. When asked what they would do (prior to handing over his docs), he was simply told, 'We cannot guarantee anything, only that when we've finished, your degree will be legal in China'

In Australia one is told to go to a notary public (JP or Lawyer), to have it verified, then to the Dept of Foreign Trade, then to the Chinese Embassy. Incidentally, when the Canadian guy actually called the Chinese embassy in Ottawa, he was greeted with confusion and ignorance, since the person he was speaking to had no idea what he was asking about.

I know of training centres in China where the management just say 'Don't worry, we'll forge one for you', and school FAO's that don't care if you have a degree or not, just as long as you are TESOL/TEFL/TESL qualified.

As far as help goes, for what it's worth, my advice would be NOT to ask your FAO or even your local PSB for guidance, since the two are likely to conflict in their opinions/requirements. If possible, take the time to go to your local FEB and ask them directly.

From what I've already seen and heard, (and not all of it is posted here....yet....), the system is already in such a state of disarray that it's even possible to get a fake degree verified as being genuine.

It appears to be nothing more than a money-making exercise that the government have pathetically tried to disguise as an 'ESL FT clean-up operation'.