Foxy
- 2016-09-24
A good friend of mine has recently arrived in China. He had his degree authenticated in his own country before he came.
He arrived on the Tuesday, had his medical on the Thursday, flew to HK on the Saturday, collected his Z visa on the Monday and started work the next day. All-in-all, one week!
Of course, this was helped by the fact that the school knew what they were doing and were able to expedite the process in a professional manner. At no time during his first few days was he allowed to teach.
Certain posters should perhaps learn the difference in meaning between the phrases, 'You can't do that' and 'It can't be done'.
Foxy
- 2016-09-23
There is no provincial variation in the law, only in the enforcement of it and that
enforcement activity has been increasing markedly since last year.
I never said there was. I said ',,,, yet at the same time doesn't necessary contradict what 'Amused' said because the province she is in may well enforce this rule more strictly.'
I assume you have not read the post that Former FT suggested you read?
Your advice to foreign English teaching candidates to willfully break the law when they come
to China (all visa applications require a signed statement of purpose) will act to put
many individuals at risk of deportation, fines and perhaps worse. It also puts them at
the mercy of recruiters and private schools once they arrive with a brief L visa, little
money, and non-residential status.
There is NOTHING illegal about ENTERING China on a tourist visa, and can you please show me where I condoned teaching whilst holding one?
The OP asked for advice and that's what he's got. The underlying message remains the same = DON'T RISK TEACHING ON A TOURIST VISA.
amused
- 2016-09-23
If they] are 100% certain that they can get you a Z-visa in Hong Kong, then by all means come in on a tourist visa first.
Your advice to foreign English teaching candidates to willfully break the law when they come to China (all visa applications require a signed statement of purpose) will act to put many individuals at risk of deportation, fines and perhaps worse. It also puts them at the mercy of recruiters and private schools once they arrive with a brief L visa, little money, and non-residential status.
There is no provincial variation in the law, only in the enforcement of it and that enforcement activity has been increasing markedly since last year.
The fact that people in every country at every moment successfully break laws is entirely beside the point.
Your 'they' have financial motivation. What is yours in providing this destructive advice? "By all means" please tell us.
No doubt the rest of the recruiters/shills for private schools will again comment in support of your equivocation. The support of these multi-monikered monkees is in itself damning.
You are 'correct' about the fact that people sometimes succeed in breaking the law. But encouraging others to put themselves at significant risk by acting illegally is certainly not a righteous act.
Once again: arriving in China to teach English without a Z visa in your hand makes you fodder for the clowns that advise you to break the law.
uh-huh
- 2016-09-23
Hear from somebody else on this matter? No problem. 'hz88' posting on the link below seems to tilt the argument in favor of Foxy.http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=115024&start=15&sid=b219929a480a7550aff35f924ea781f7
Signed sealed and delivered I'd say. It'll now be up to foxy, a slight nodding bow with reluctant murmur of admission; or a real 'end of story' prostrate wailing, pleading for pardon.
uh-huh
- 2016-09-23
Advising individuals to fly to China now with a tourist visa, trust the recruiter/employer and then travel to Hong Kong for a Z visa is worse than disingenuous.
es yes
Z visas have always been and continue to be given to citizens of many countries for a variety of types of employment.NOW new Foreign teachers of English in China are only offered Z visas in their NES home country.
I have no advice to give to other nationalities that will collude with a recruiter to obtain Z visas in HK to teach Russian or Italian and then end up teaching English illegally in a private school.
If you arrive in China with an L visa in your passport and an abiding faith in your recruiter in your heart, you are a fool.
Recruiters and shills for private schools will continue to dispute this fact, precisely because they are willing to sacrifice your safety for their profit.
Yes yes yes yes, I like tulips too but were you right or were you wrong?
Foxy
- 2016-09-23
No-one needs to apologise. This is China! There's often no 'right' and 'wrong' because different provinces operate differently. Former FT has cited a post on another forum that you should look at. Yes, it points more to what I said earlier, yet at the same time doesn't necessary contradict what 'Amused' said because the province she is in may well enforce this rule more strictly.
Time is often a huge factor and schools want FTs NOW! If they are 100% certain that they can get you a Z-visa in Hong Kong, then by all means come in on a tourist visa first. Either way, I suggest you read the post that Former FT has suggested you read.
amused
- 2016-09-23
Advising individuals to fly to China now with a tourist visa, trust the recruiter/employer and then travel to Hong Kong for a Z visa is worse than disingenuous.
Z visas have always been and continue to be given to citizens of many countries for a variety of types of employment.
NOW new Foreign teachers of English in China are only offered Z visas in their NES home country.
I have no advice to give to other nationalities that will collude with a recruiter to obtain Z visas in HK to teach Russian or Italian and then end up teaching English illegally in a private school.
If you arrive in China with an L visa in your passport and an abiding faith in your recruiter in your heart, you are a fool.
Recruiters and shills for private schools will continue to dispute this fact, precisely because they are willing to sacrifice your safety for their profit.
Former FT in China
- 2016-09-23
I don't know which of you two is right but it's all getting a bit heated. When this matter is
resolved one of you must to the right thing and make an unreserved apology and show
honour and character. Perhaps we can hear from somebody else on this matter. Am I right
or am I right? You know it makes sense!
Hear from somebody else on this matter? No problem. 'hz88' posting on the link below seems to tilt the argument in favor of Foxy.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=115024&start=15&sid=b219929a480a7550aff35f924ea781f7
uh-huh
- 2016-09-23
Wrong!
A friend of mine has just begun working in China this semester. He came in on a tourist visa, then a short time later he flew to Hong Kong to pick up his Z-visa.
This is exactly the same procedure that thousands of FT's have been through in the past.
I don't know which of you two is right but it's all getting a bit heated. When this matter is resolved one of you must to the right thing and make an unreserved apology and show honour and character. Perhaps we can hear from somebody else on this matter. Am I right or am I right? You know it makes sense!
Knut Jannsen
- 2016-09-23
Z visas for FTs of English are ONLY provided by the embassy in your home NES country.
Funny, I merely went to the consulate.
Johnnie
- 2016-09-23
A friend of mine has just begun working in China this semester. He came in on a tourist visa,
then a short time later he flew to Hong Kong to pick up his Z-visa.
This is exactly the same procedure that thousands of FT's have been through in the past.
Indeed!
Some schools, even those who have licences to issue Z visas, ofttimes ask their teachers to come to China initially on L visas for a variety of reasons. The usual reason is time constraints. If they need an FT now it is easier and faster for them to do the required invite letter paperwork with the new teacher present in China.
If new teachers arrive on L visas, they can teach during the first four weeks or so until they do an HK visa run during the October national days' vacation to get their Z visas. My province still allows Hong Kong visa processing. It is a poor unfashionable province of Northern China that has great difficulty in filling its FT vacancies. Formerly it was the number one visa fraud province for FTs in China!
Foxy
- 2016-09-22
Z visas for FTs of English are ONLY provided by the embassy in your home NES country.
It matters not at all what your prospective Chinese employer accepts: the Embassy officials
will require a Bachelors Degree, original and apostilled, before they issue the Z visa.
End of story.
Wrong!
A friend of mine has just begun working in China this semester. He came in on a tourist visa, then a short time later he flew to Hong Kong to pick up his Z-visa.
This is exactly the same procedure that thousands of FT's have been through in the past.
amused
- 2016-09-22
Z visas for FTs of English are ONLY provided by the embassy in your home NES country.
It matters not at all what your prospective Chinese employer accepts: the Embassy officials will require a Bachelors Degree, original and apostilled, before they issue the Z visa.
End of story.
Foxy
- 2016-09-22
Uh-Huh is correct when he advises that you don't begin work unless you have a Z-visa.
That said, this is China and there are many things that are possible. You can't get a Z-visa unless you have an authorised degree is akin to saying that you can't walk across the road when the 'little red man' is on red.
You have an associates degree and that is highly likely to be regarded by many prospective employers as being 'good enough', especially in the current climate where ESL teachers are in short supply. Many schools will 'cross the road while the little-red-man is lit', just to get teachers.
As long as you have a decent TESOL qualification and are a NES, then you shouldn't have too much trouble in finding work. However, I must re-iterate what 'Uh-Huh' said below, don't even THINK about starting work on anything other than a Z-visa.
The YouTube video that you highlighted in your OP was submitted back in March when no-one knew for sure what the ramifications of this new law would be. She also says that she has already been teaching in China for 4 years. This would take us back to around 2012 when this rule was easily ignored or just simply wasn't in force.
Now that it IS being enforced by the PSB in many provinces, FT's are leaving China in droves. Someone will hire you, a training centre most likely, but don't sign a contract with any of them without first posting your intentions on such a forum as this. At least that way you have a good chance of getting at least SOME advice as to whether your prospective employer is well below the level of a snake's belly, or on par with one. Good Luck !
uh-huh
- 2016-09-22
They set me up with an interview with Best Learning English, but I read they don't even give you Z Visas.
I was formerly a teacher in China, now I am retired and married to a Chinese wife.
I have a wide experience in China and know of nowhere you can work legally without firstly getting a Z visa. Just don't get lulled into working illegally otherwise you may get a visit from the PSB, who will fine you up to 20,000 RMB and throw you out of the country. Be warned!
First, I don't have a 4 year degree. I do have an associates, but I know that doesn't cut it in China.
However, I did read that some provinces in China don't require a university degree to get a Z Visa. Is this true?
Also, how true is this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEz8PeAIFtA
She says that you don't need a bachelor's to teach in China legally.
Just need some advice on what my options are. I really want to teach overseas. I've been talking with an Agency and I hear there are some shady things about them. They set me up with an interview with Best Learning English, but I read they don't even give you Z Visas.
Thanks in advance.