An old article but interesting and funny.

I think you might know as you lived in Australia for a while that the Gold Coast in Queensland has many former New Zealand residents. I would not trust any of them, would certainly never do business with one of them.

The GC has always been a haven for various scammers and criminals, more than a few degenerates from across the Tasman among them.

Bloody Hell, you'd never credit it, one never thinks of Kiwi's as crooks!

I hope those Aussie skyscrapers are designed to last longer than Chinese ones-my building is only ten years and looking very old now.

If you have actual teaching credentials in the U.S. or other NES country, you can essentially work ANYWHERE you want in China.

The best High Schools (commonly called middle schools in Chinese because they are usually grades 7-12) are often affiliated with a University.

As another poster has written, 'High Schools' pay a higher salary but require more hours. Additionally, the class size is usually larger than at a University.

It IS more difficult to locate these jobs directly, but I personally would try. I recommend that you determine where you want to teach, then google that city name with foreign teacher English. The task then becomes sorting the responses into 3 categories: 1) recruiters 2) recruitment sites 3) direct school ads. #3 is preferable but will be few in number. #2 The recruitment sites (like the job section on this website) are a mixture of direct ads and agents. Again: choose the direct ads.

Remember that as a NES with actual teaching credentials you will be offered every job you apply for. You do not need a long list of possible employers.

Also, bare in mind that China has many schools that we would call 'junior colleges' for students age 15-19. The are usually trade oriented for students that have less academic skill and less money. As a FT at one of these schools, you would be treated like royalty. Like Universities, they advertise directly and call themselves something like 'college of tourism'. Most stewardesses and nurses are taught in 'colleges' of this type.

Please be selective about the position you accept. Please try to avoid dealing with a recruiter. A few extra hours of work online now will save you months of anguish if you sign a contract with a shady employer.

I know you are a proper teacher

No, I'm not certified to teach in the U.S.
My educational credentials are only TESOL.
I am merely a dilettante, a FT in the PRC.
But I am a proper learner, I hope.

I am not seeking a university position, never once did I say this. Not sure where you got this idea. I am looking to teach high school students. I have taught high school students for six years already and am comfortable with that age group.

Perhaps you have some ideas how to apply to such schools?

Yes, thanks.

Got your e-mail, left me staggered and needing a drink. 'There are more ways ** **** * ***' is probably the most important and frequently used idiom in the whole of the English language. Its word meaning like many idioms is lost in the mists of time and some of us even think it refers to 'The *** ** **** *****' So, when it's said and we all do an awful lot we don't think of any literal meaning save there's more ways of doing a job than one. Either way you can't go around getting such important chunks of English banned. Hahaha! heard it all now!

Thanks, Trumpsey but I know him of old. I mean he wouldn't do what another old poster did to
LondonGirl.

He is a native speaker? I'm surprised.
It's amazing how you guys recognize each other when swapping handles.

In China, public school positions for FTs will keep you busier than college/university positions. Not only is the pay significantly higher, but the classes tend to be less demanding as you will be teaching very basic English. 20 classes a week will be the norm and the emphasis will be on oral English relevant to the English vocabulary in the pupils' textbooks. You may get the chance to deviate your oral lessons material from the textbook. Challenging work due to the English level of the pupils being on the low side, but you can be a good teacher in that environment if you speak slowly and use simple vocabulary.

You will be busier than a college/university FT. However, you will have more free time than a language mill FT. And, that free time should mainly comprise your weekends and evenings, unlike training centre jobs.

Angelina's Cafe is a recruiter I'd recommend for such jobs.

Taffy, don't give this poster your email.
Something's rotten in the state of Expat Hubby.

Thanks, Trumpsey but I know him of old. I mean he wouldn't do what another old poster did to LondonGirl.

I may as well leave the e-mail on my posts for now.

I'm not just out of college but am a newbie so to speak.

It seems that I am going to have to deal with recruiters as the majority of teaching positions in public schools are advertised through them. Even on this site, the majority are agents.

Am I going about it the wrong way in expressing what I want and don't want at the beginning of the process? Even through I have reiterated what I will accept and not the recruiters so far seem to be of the illusion that I will deviate from this and accept what they set me up with. It is as I said just wasting mine and their time in the long run.

Anyone any ideas?

Yes, honestly!

You are off the beam with your presumption about all western individuals asking such a question being deceitful!

And my wife is NOT a party member!

Great stuff!

If you would like to know what the so-called offending idiom was, please provide an e-mail
address. I''ll e-mail you it!

Taffy, don't give this poster your email.
Something's rotten in the state of Expat Hubby.

So because we don't want to use an agent we pay through the nose for a VPN which probably
won't work.

Approximately 27rmb a month for a VPN that works 99.5% of the time. October Party Congress time is a problem for a week.
Remember: my post was for 'newbies', those not already in China.
Taffy, I honestly do not understand your continued support of recruiters... why is that?

We take Google for granted UNTIL it won't work!

You obviously being a self-proclaimed font of knowledge (albeit by default), please be so kind as to proffer the reason(s) why Google has been blocked in some parts of China as a search engine?

Without google the google search of this board won't work!

You certainly are a font [sic] of knowledge.
Just sayin'.

Just sayin:
Google is BLOCKED as a search engine where I am in China.
Just sayin: I'm in China.
Some blockages are innate, some embraced. Even a horse can refuse blinders.

So because we don't want to use an agent we pay through the nose for a VPN which probably won't work.

The 'edited' part was an idiom - [edited]

Nowt derogatory aimed at you!

For this program, we are looking for excellent talents, in the area of Natural Science, Medicine, and Engineering,
A. who are under 40 years old and with doctorate from the top 100 international universities or research institutes (or from top 30 disciplines in the world). They will be given an academic title of Researcher under a negotiable annual salary pay scale within the range of 150,000 Yuan to 200,000 Yuan. They are offered 300,000 Yuan as starting research fund.
B. who are under 35 years old and with doctorate of renowned universities both home and abroad. They will be given an academic title of Associate Researcher under a negotiable annual salary pay scale within the range of 100,000 Yuan to 150,000 Yuan. They are offered 200,000 Yuan as starting research fund.

Hahaha! Most of us FT's are closet bums with a bachelors, Trumpsey. No we need agents to winkle out them rough-arse-jobs for us. Peking University my foot hahaha!

I'm bound to say that the high-faluting job descriptions only seem to attract the sort of cash a lorry driver gets. Get more money in a Shanghai TC.

Why do you want someone to be paid, to get a commission for doing nothing? Chinese get into recruiting because they are in general a lazy and inefficient race of people who don't want to work.

An agent does not represent the interests of teachers. I've had various experiences with agents in the fashion and model industry also. To put it mildly, nearly ALL of them are scum.

A real and decent employer will recruit his own staff. The "I'm too busy" line is a lame excuse. Nobody is ever so busy that they can't find good staff on their own. If I wanted to find a good carpenter the last thing I'd do is go through a HR company.

Agents are a waste of space and they intervene and interfere in a process where they are not wanted or needed. If Turnoi put a profile on here that's ok. He would wait to see what response he would get. I've done it on here also in the past. Schools DO contact teachers directly. You can just say, "no agencies, no recruiters" in your job add, put it in hanzi and pinyin also for extra emphasis if need be.

There you go. Their own websites. You just contact them directly like Turnoi always said. Ignore recruiters.

Good post, bro!

[edited]

First of all, nobody needs an agent/recruiter to find work, not in teaching or any other field. Why some people insist on using agents, it's stupid. It is easy to find work at universities without using a recruiter.

Would agree though that speaking to teachers already employed at a school will not be of much help. We know that many schools and also universities have lackeys employed to tell prospective teachers what they want to hear. There are Westerners in China who will happily sell out other foreigners for a pittance. There is zero loyalty, and many laowai in China put the interests of China ahead of the interests of the West and that is a disgrace.

I don't know why China attracts the most immoral, deceitful, stingy and uncaring ex-pats in all of Asia.

The thing is this, posters have been telling newbie ft's for years how easy it it is to find a job without an agent but nobody actually tells them how to do it.

Even the noble Turnoi advertised his profile. Who do you think answers all these profiles on-line. It's agents and not the actual schools themselves..

Now, you only need the agent to point the way for you- to gather copies of whatever an employer needs from you. At that point you take over yourself and try and ascertain by using your own judgement what's true and what's not true, and negotiate any changes you want.

Again if you can get contact details of other teachers and talk to them it's down to you to judge whether they are lying to you or not. Whether or not you have used an agent to arrive at that point or not is neither here nor there- except you might not arrive at too many points like that without an agent.

By the sound of it some on this site are suggesting that if you wheedle out an employer yourself there will be no need to interrogate the employer at all.

The law of attraction (what used to be described as "birds of a feather flock together")

It still is described so, Fifi. That expression is alive and well and living in Twickenham. I like the "Opposites attract"

First of all, nobody needs an agent/recruiter to find work, not in teaching or any other field. Why some people insist on using agents, it's stupid. It is easy to find work at universities without using a recruiter.

Would agree though that speaking to teachers already employed at a school will not be of much help. We know that many schools and also universities have lackeys employed to tell prospective teachers what they want to hear. There are Westerners in China who will happily sell out other foreigners for a pittance. There is zero loyalty, and many laowai in China put the interests of China ahead of the interests of the West and that is a disgrace.

I don't know why China attracts the most immoral, deceitful, stingy and uncaring ex-pats in all of Asia.

if we would like to
inform Lyle of all the paperwork and pictures a FAO would like to see and put him wise
on those 'Research Skills' he may be able to make a direct approach

I've done that at least twice on this site.

I've accepted 5 university positions in China from a dozen or more offers. Each of these offers came from Universities I had contacted directly, including my first position that I located when I was outside of China, in Paris.

Of course there were issues that needed to be addressed and I often chose to move to 'greener pastures', but I have recommended these employers to other FTs. Only one of these Universities had used a recruiter in the past, with unfortunate results. One of these universities has received negative reviews on this site, but my time there was pleasant.

I'm sure there are some good recruiters, but my reading of comments on this site and others seems to indicate that they are in the minority.

Lyle,
If you were looking for a job in a city near your hometown, would you post your resume on job sites and wait?
The best employers do not have to pay recruiters or browse websites. They review resumes of candidates that possess the research skills and personal initiative to locate and contact them directly. Chinese universities are no exception.

It's hard work extracting all the necessary evidence/paperwork from FT's- it's time-consuming and FAO's like agents to do all the donkey-work for them. Even good Chinese universities do not have personnel departments for due processing. However, if we would like to inform Lyle of all the paperwork and pictures a FAO would like to see and put him wise on those 'Research Skills' he may be able to make a direct approach. But I would say why bovver, it's not as if an agent will prevent you from telling him to sod off so you can have private words with the actual employer. And you can put it to him "The evil recruiter tells me my apartment will be carpeted wall to wall with Axminster. Is that true and if so please send me a Poleroid!" You see it matters not that agents may well be piles of shit because we ourselves will be interviewing the employer when the agent has done his skivvying.

Your experience so far is typical. It's not going to improve. They will tell you that someone from the school will pick you up at the airport.... you will be waiting and waiting. And nobody will come.

The right attitude on the part of a FT in my opinion: Have fun with the whole process, laugh at the lies, laugh at the inconsistencies (which are consistent), have no expectations of being respected, or of being paid fairly. Just sail through the experience. It's a skill that will benefit you in other areas of your life when you return home.

Thanks for the replies.

I was beginning to think I had adopted the wrong approach. I posted my brief details on a few websites and have been inundated mostly with offers which simply are not for me.

I have been a high school teacher for many years and have no wish to teach younger students that is why I specified public schools. I don't wish to waste mine and the schools time going through all the notions if there is no mileage in me applying.

An example conversation. "Does the school provide accommodation?", "Yes they give you an allowance", "Is it school accommodation?", "They pay for it by the allowance", "So I have to find the accommodation myself?", "Yes, that what the allowance is for", "So it's not the school accommodation?"...

I said to one agent that I don't wish to travel between campuses or work in different locations. They said no, there is none of that, stayed up on Skype until very late to have an interview and when I confirmed that this was the case, was told, we have two campuses they are 45 minutes apart.

Another one last night which seemed a good fit so I went ahead with the interview only to find out that the promised 16 classes turned out to include 6 of primary school kids. I explained that I don't wish to teach this age group and therefore see no point in continuing with the interview.

This is my point, surely it's of no benefit in wasting everyone's time.

The reason I asked about office hours was because of the person saying it is a requirement of the education board. I thought maybe this is something new but it sounds like its a ruse to cover themselves.

Having gone through all the loops to get all my documents verified, authenticated etc, I'm already starting to feel drained before I even get a job!

I never ever did office hours at any public university in China. Forget about anyone who expects you to do this.

Anybody who expects more than 16 hours a week for less than 8000 rmb a month is to be ignored.

Also, forget about any school that expects you to present different lesson plans for each class, or any school that asks you to give then copies of ANY lesson plans.

Certainly not, if you work at a university you expect to turn up with a lesson plan or two which normally does all your classes for the week.. I knew a teacher who would turn up with a microwave, six eggs and a bag of flour and do cookery lessons hahaha! Can be good with about 12 lessons a week and 3 or 4 days off. Can be lonely , uncomfortable with cold windy corridors, up and down different blocks-lessons cancelled.

I did 6 hours a day in a TC where 2 of those were office hours. We had free meals (good ones) sex with colleagues but you normally pay for the drinks. a flat allowance of the required rent. air fair paid, holidays paid. Salary 13000 but that was a good few years ago. All the lesson plans were provided for you. You needed the office hours they maintained to collate and make handouts. All chinglish but teacher-friendly.

If you are using recruiters, office-hour deception is the least of your problems.

There are different types of agents/recruiters in China. There's the type whom you have nowt to do with once you have signed a contract with a school and another who will be your employer and will have a contract with a middle school or university where they will send you.

Any sort of agent will lie and often lie by omission, but since you will at the final stages of securing a position need to quiz the actual employer whether you have an agent or not, then you may as well use an agent.

As for the office environment of a training centre, it can be a good vehicle for the newbie to make friends, obviating the lonely man's need for, pink rooms, pizzahutt, McDonald and KFC.

We are all different, some of us prefer to do any lesson plans at home in out own flat. If you are a bit slow making friends, maybe a training centre with its office is best.

One recruiter in particular

If you are using recruiters, office-hour deception is the least of your problems.

I'm in the process of applying or a new job in China and am trying to sift through the myriad of offers which I am being given.

Just a quick question really.

I have specified that I wish to teach in public schools. One recruiter in particular seemed to get a little offended when I said I do not want a job with office hours. I got a rather curt reply which said 'then I have nothing for you, it is a requirement by the education bureau that foreign teachers undertake office hours'.

Is this truly the case? I have seen advertisements which specify 'no office hours'. I am not interested in working in training centres, so why the need for this in public schools?

Any ideas?