TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
Return to Index › Teaching in China w/o Degree - Teachers Discussion
#1 Parent KJ - 2007-03-27
no degree: good luck - Teachers Discussion

If you do not hold a degree, your chances of getting a job with a reputable organization are pretty slim. This means that you could likely find yourself in a position wherein you have been hired for no other reason than that you are a native speaker. Furthermore, if you are hired, it will no doubt be by someone who has chosen to skirt the law or who has found a way to circumnavigate the law. Either way you could find yourself in a situation that could ultimately prove to be, well, shall we say, not very pleasant.

So, good luck. But meanwhile, if you'll pardon my curiosity, why have you chosen to teach in China when, by your own admission, you don't have the qualifications to do so? Do you have teaching experience of any kind? Have you done volunteer literacy work at home? Have you worked with immigrants in any capacity? In short, what prior experiences do you have that makes you believe that Chinese students will benefit by your presence in the classroom? I don't ask you these questions as a means of insulting you. No, I'm really curious about what has motivated you to choose this path; moreover, I'm curious as to why you have chosen China. Is it because you have a particular interest in China? I mean, why not Thailand or Laos for example.

#2 Parent John - 2007-03-27
degree - Teachers Discussion

http://www.edu-chinaembassy.org.uk/english/index.htm
Click 'teaching in china'
It states:

Eligibility

The basic qualification is a first degree. A TEFL certificate and/or certain period of teaching experience is preferred. Teaching experience in a country where English is not the native language will also be very helpful. Chinese institutions do not have any preference for age. Applicants can range from a fresh graduate to a newly retired teacher in good health.

I dont have a degree and am looking for teaching work in china at the moment. I will see how i get on and report here of progress.

#3 Parent Foreign Teacher - 2007-03-06
Let's Degree to Dis-degree - Teachers Discussion

Leslie, I was not being rude, just stating a fact. Have you any real experience of this country ? apart from what you've read or been told ?.

If you ask ten different Chinese officials the same question, you will get ten differing answers. In China, nothing is set in stone, it depends on the way the 'rules' are interpreted by the official on the spot at the time and the level of 'guanxi' (influence) the person wanting something has. THIS IS CHINA, Don't confuse it with any other country.

Being married to a Chinese (I'm not) makes no difference, but if the spouse has a cousin in the Bureau ?? NOW your talking, and anything is possible.

#4 Parent Leslie - 2007-03-06
without degree - teachers discussion - Teachers Discussion

No need to be rude. My information is 4 months old from the Chinese embassy in Canada. Please tell them they are talking nonsense. I couldnt help a teacher with a job search based on their information. And as for S. Korea, why do you think, most asian countries cracked down, including China? Because of what those 2 did and the violent riots that occurred afterwards. Foreigners told not to go out at night alone because 2 idiots without degrees pulled what they did.

I can only go by what the embassy told me. If they are as you say spreading nonsense, then please set them straight. I took them at their word, that perhaps their embassy might know better than I as to what is going on in China and throughout Asia. So dont say Im spreading nonsense, I received info from their embassy and just typed it up. Nothing more, nothing less. Are the rules different in China if married to a chinese? I dont know, perhaps they are.

#5 Parent Foreign Teacher - 2007-03-05
China/Degree - Teachers Discussion

Dear Leslie, You do talk some nonsense.
The discussion so far has been about China. Why start bringing in S. Korea and sex offenders.? These are two different countries with two different education systems and two different views on qualifications.

I am writing as one with 4 years experience with a regular salaried job teaching in a State University in China, with NO DEGREE, yet I have a Residence Permit AND Foreign Expert Card and the authorities in my province are well aware of the fact that I have no degree or diploma, so lets offer opinions from a knowledge base, not speculation and hearsay.

It IS possible to teach in China WITHOUT a degree, which is the answer to the original question.
Lets leave it at that shall we ?.

#6 Parent Tim. - 2007-03-04
China : Rough plasce to work - Teachers Discussion

Best to stay out of China as a worker unless the curiosity is burning in you. I wporded there for 6 months and learned a lot, made a few friends but it is a rough assignment and there are business swindles everywhere. If caught in a lie shopkeepers and clerks often try to cover it with another lie. My two favourite students were robbed and swindled while I was there. They dont go to the police as they say its useless. Some shop keepers will scream at you to frighten you off if you bring back defective goods. My air ticket *Eastern China Airways) was not honoured and no refund give..recourse?? buy another. Where is the morality after 62 years of Communism? Many poor countries are full of tricks and corruption. Have to have your wits about you. Too many Chinese are money hungry and that is about it. They are very much brainwashed about Taiwan and Tibet. A lot of what we admire about China is old China, museum China. The general poverty under Communism led to a steep decline in the fine arts and many buildings. People had no money for fine arts and most monastaries were confiscated or destroyed. I dont regret going to China but it is best done as a tourist. You can live there very cheaply for half a year and it is not difficult to befriend English students. Many are idealistic, respectful and helpful. Be prepared to pick up the bus and lunch tabs as they have little pocket money. I took one student on spring holiday with me to Yunnan and as a translator he was a godsend. I was a godsend to him. The Chinese produce many fine doccumentaries they air on TV. If you can get hold of these and watch the modern and older Chinese cinema you will learn a lot from home. One of my favourite movies is Beijing Bicycle.

#7 Parent Leslie - 2007-03-04
without degree - teachers discussion - Teachers Discussion *Link*

Reality check folks. Talk to the Chinese consulates/embassies. They are very clear on the issue. NO degree, NO visa. If schools want to bypass the law and have you work without the proper papers they put you and themselves at risk. In other words jail time.

It did happen last year thanks to two idiots in S. Korea that were trading esl for sex. They not only did jail time and a fine, they were also deported back home. The fall out was that a lot of good teachers without degrees lost their jobs, had to leave before the government caught up with them. Its now the law in most if not all asian countries.

They will check, and if it doesnt check out, NO visa. If you do teach without the visa, watch your back because I hear Chinese jails are a hell hole. They are one place I wouldnt recommend testing the theory that they will allow you to teach without papers.

Be my guest to test that theory at your own risk. Just dont plan on leaving China anytime soon if caught, you may become the guest of their fair government.

#8 Parent J. Edgar - 2007-03-04
Finding the Law - Teachers Discussion

I have yet to find or be shown any official links showing where this law can be found. Personally, I'm just going to call the embassy and ask. Everyone else I've posed this question to, the large majourity teaching in China currently, are convicted of the belief that I can obtain a Z visa with a diploma. I'm not crazy about the idea of working on an F visa regardless of whether that are consequences or not, but I've yet to see any real evidence that this is the only route I can take.

Thank you for your help, but I'm still not sure where some of you are getting your information.

#9 Parent University Teacher - 2007-03-04
Without Degree - Teachers Discussion

The law may be the law, however each province in China can interpret the law as it chooses. The central government has very little say over the day to day workings in the provinces. Some areas may be more inclined to adhere more strictly, some couldn't give a toss, and what about the SAR's (special autonomous regions )?.
Besides that, there has to my knowledge, never been a single prosecution of a foreign teacher for not having a degree but teaching anyway, and the most that has ever been reported is that the person involved has been asked to leave China.
China needs native speakers (who mostly teach conversation English anyway) and need drives the market.
It's wrong to threaten dire consequences that don't exist.

#10 Parent Foreign Teacher - 2007-03-04
No Degree Required - Teachers Discussion

CHECK THIS OUT: From the English Teachers Board Jobs.

5000RMB in Xinfeng - No Degree Required!! - English job offered

Posted By American ESL Centre <americaneslcentre@gmail.com>
Date 3 March 2007

Hi Everybody:)

This is an urgent listing for an area of China where traditional flora and fauna and amazing forested landscapes can still be seen. Jiangxi Province can still boast the existence of such rare species as the South China Tiger though sadly this beautiful animals time is close at hand. The city where youll be teaching is Xinfeng, which is located in the south of Jiangxi, which places it an area containing a variety of historically-significant sites.

The details are as follows:

Name of Institute: Xinfeng middle school

5000 RMB per month

approximately 20 lessons per week

1 month holiday with full pay

fully-furnished accommodation

airfare reimbursed (up to 8000RMB)

2200 RMB Trip allowance (for one-year contract)

This position requires an early February start.

NON-DEGREE HOLDERS WILL BE CONSIDERED

When replying to our advertisement, PLEASE provide the requested items below. We are sorry to come across as underworld heavies but due to the enormous amount of mail we receive we simply dont have the resources to follow-up with applicants who dont attach the requested documentation. So please, keep in our good books (and on our Christmas card list), by attaching the following to your email:

+ A clear photo

+ resume

+ copy of degree/diploma

+ copy of TESOL certification or equivalent

+ a copy of your passport!!

+ a contact phone number

+ a nice smile:)

Please attach these to your reply letter, along with a contact phone number. Those with the requested items and a nice smile will be given selection preference!!!

While American ESL Centre supports EEO (Equal Employment Opportunities) policy and guidelines, some of our client-schools unfortunately do not. We are truly sorry but this position is only open to applicants from native-English speakers of the following countries: U.S, U.K. Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

When replying can you please indicate from which website you found our advertisement, and please remember:

***EMAILS WITHOUT THE REQUESTED DOCUMENTATION WILL NOT RECEIVE A REPLY AND YOULL BE OFF OUR CHRISTMAS CARD LIST!!!***

Good luck and kind regards,

Reply to:

Patricia

(Human Resources)

Ph: 86+ 13981723629

americaneslcentre@gmail.com

American ESL Centre

http://www.americaneslcentre.com

PLEASE NOTE: While we never try to take ourselves too seriously and like to cultivate a fun and relaxed relationship with all our teachers, there is one thing we do take very seriously: anyone submitting an application with a fake degree/diploma will be automatically rejected and permanently blacklisted. Its not fair for those who have worked hard and earned their degree to be competing against pretenders. If you dont have a degree, be honest about it and well do our best to have you considered for the position regardless.

American ESL Centre


#11 Parent Dave - 2007-03-03
The Law is the Law - Even in China! - Teachers Discussion

The requirement for a degree became legal sometime last year. I know this, for I work for a school that is punctilious about adhering to regulations and at the time my own visa had to be renewed last August, this requirement was discussed at our school with regard to the recruitment of future teachers. Previously the school employed anyone who was deemed appropriate for the job and who could produce any documented proof of qualifications that would satisfy the local Foreign Affairs Office. That office notified our school of the requirement for degrees only.

I can entirely understand that in your position where you really want a job in China,. the requirement for a degree is the very last thing you want to hear. The fact that you have not heard of it or that no-one else has mentioned it makes no difference to the facts. In China a degree is now a requirement and if you should be offered a job where you don't have to produce one then someone is breaking the law in making such an offer and you will be breaking the law should you accept it.

Immigration laws exist in one form or another in almost every country on earth. They are also some of the most widely flouted. If you were to accept a job based on an 'F' Visa the likelihood of you being 'found-out' may be relatively slight. However, if you ARE found out the consequences may well be serious for you. It is not really worth the risk in my opinion but fortunately for me it is not my opinion that counts in this issue - it is yours.

A past colleague of mine who left our school has set himself up in Beijing with a 'Z' Visa he bought. He now moves around Beijing in the role as a 'freelance' teacher offering his services to various schools. I understand he is doing quite well and reports that the authorities generally leave foreigners alone. Perhaps you might investigate buying yourself a visa - but if you are found out you are in extremely serious trouble.

As I said in my earlier e-mail. The law is the law and if you break the law and are unfortunate enough to be apprehended, you will face unpleasant consequences. Then it will be too late to change your mind!

Best wishes

Dave

#12 Parent University Teacher - 2007-03-03
Without a Degree - Teachers Discussion

What rubbish some people write here as supposedly 'gospel' advice.
There are many hundreds of people teaching in China who do not have a degree and most are doing a damn good job. Don't be put off by the 'know all pundits'.
You will also find that 99% of the negative posts about various schools and recruiters are by a few disgruntled
individuals, but what about the hundreds if not thousands who have no complaints ? and have had a good time.
Re: Buckland. I came to China to work for them, did a full 12 month contract and have NO complaints at all, quite the opposite. Get in touch with them, they will help you into a post, but hey, this country is not the USA or Europe, so don't expect the same standards in any aspect of teaching here. Go for it anyway.
Good luck.

#13 Parent J. Edgar - 2007-03-02
Degree Law - Teachers Discussion

A degree requirement has become law? Again, I do have a diploma. But I cannot find anywhere else mentioning this law. I looked through http://www.china-tesol.com/How_to_get_a_Job/SAFEA_Guide/_2_Credentials/_2_credentials.html
as well, and, while it is certainly a bit outdated, I couldn't find any mention of the necessity of a degree.

Could you link me where you heard about/found this law?

I appreciate it.

#14 Parent Leslie - 2007-03-02
Teaching without a degree - Teachers Discussion - Teachers Discussion *Link*

Not worth the risk and they are checking on paperwork, no more free rides. The only way I can see this happening is if China and your country have a Working holiday visa program. Otherwise your risking time in a Chinese jail and that is not a risk anyone should take. Those horror stories are real and is a job really worth that kind of torture?

#15 Parent Dave - 2007-03-02
Teaching without a degree - Teachers Discussion

As the requirement for a degree (in any discipline) is now the law throughout China, it follows that anyone who offers you a job without one, is in some way breaking the law - and so will you be if you accept such a job.

Many schools will offer you a job based on an 'F' visa which may be valid up to 6 months. However, it is NOT legal for employment but intended for specialists who are visiting China for some specific purpose. Such specialists may be visiting consultants or lecturers but they must not be paid a salary for their work in China - However, some form of stipend or 'expenses' may be payable but it's all very complicated. If you are caught, you will at best be thrown out of the Country and at worst you may be detained for some time - and then thrown out of the Country.

Other schools will offer you a job if you arrive at their door with a simple 30-day Visit Visa but this is even more illegal, as Visit Visas do not permit you to hold ANY form of employment in China. Moreover, they are not transferable into the required 'Z'-Visa. Thus any employer offering you a job based on a Visit Visa must have some 'influence' in the local Foreign Affairs office and if that office should overnight find itself with a new Leader or be busted by their superiors, they will quickly find that you do not have the necessary qualifications - and then you'll also be in trouble.

Most importantly if you do not have a proper 'Z' Visa no employment contract will be valid and you will be the loser. You will not have a single leg to stand on in any dispute with your employer. He can swindle you blatantly and there will be nothing you can do about it - especially if he has influence with the authorities, who will simply support him and not you.

From time to time certain people come on this site offering to 'sell' Z-visas. The last time I saw this they were charging around RMB:7,000 and after that you were on your own with a 'Z'-visa that would not stand up to scrutiny in any thorough investigation. You might be in serious trouble with this, as if the Visa is checked back to its source they will see you have no qualification to support it. Even worse you will be deemed to be working deliberately illegally for an illegal employer with an illegally obtained document and there will be no way you can plead ignorance. Biggggg Trouble for this!

China is like most other developing countries where corruption is rampant in many issues such as this. Beware of any employer offering to circumvent the system here. If it all goes pear-shaped, you will find that his ass is well protected and your ass is the one that gets ALL the kicking. However, if you're prepared to take the various risks attendant on illegal employment then you'll find a job easily enough but be sure that it doesn't come with loads of unwanted problems.

You might also consider taking a trip to Bangkok and buying yourself a forged degree complete with all supporting documents. Most Foreign Affairs offices in China do not insist on verification of authenticity of degrees - however should they later run a check and find that your 'degree' is a forgery, you may very well find yourself in a Chinese prison for s while.

If you break the law knowingly then you must expect to pay the price if you should be caught.

Sorry to be so discouraging - but the Chinese have all this well stitched up - at least in theory

Dave

J. Edgar - 2007-03-01
Teaching in China w/o Degree - Teachers Discussion

I'm having some trouble recently in regards to ESL teaching in China. I do not have a degree (I went to a career school in Canada and received a diploma).

Now, there are schools out there accepting teachers without degrees. I applied at Wancheng and was offered a job almost immediately. I was pretty enthused about this until I googled 'Wancheng International' and got a couple of forum postings with nothing but negative things to say. One of them recommended Buckland instead. Then I come on here and hear nothing but bad things about Buckland.

Feeling a little frustrated, I went to the reviews section of the site and, unsurprisingly, found virtually nothing but negative reviews of EVERYTHING.

So now I'm lost. I don't have a degree and I don't plan on getting on very soon. I'm going to be working in illustration and would love teaching in China whilst doing so. But I need to know what's going on here.

Where do I turn to find a decent school that will accept teachers without degrees or TESOL certificates?

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