TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent ManchuQueue - 2007-04-17
the Product - Teachers Discussion

English Teacher,

Let me say that I respect your opinions. I consider you to be a responsible, mature and professional teacher. Pity there are not more of your ilk in the ESL world.

I find little in your post to quarrel over. However, not discounting the culpability of "leaders, deans, managers and administrators of many schools that employ teachers of EFL", I would suggest that we focus on the FINAL PRODUCT rather than each individual that is involved in the process of bringing the product to market. While you CAN present a valid argument to administer punishment to everyone involved, I still believe that the weighted offense is committed by the teacher. What percentage of blame do we mete to each offender and how do we delineate responsibility?

BLAME...we can play the blame game. Kill the messenger is another good game. What is accomplished if we do..? This serves only to divert attention from the guilty.

"Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air." (Shakespeare's MacBeth)

ACCOUNTABILITY....yes.

Teacher's TEACH!

They, and they alone, provide the finished product for consumption. Others, though they certainly appertain with regard to the product getting to market are not "equally" guilty. I think that we should separate the "Marketing" side of the equation from the "Manufacturing" side.

An individual commits a crime. He is processed by the system. Arraigned, charged, tried, sentenced and incarcerated, is this "Justice?" If I follow your reasoning to its conclusion then I must bring a suit against "Society." If each individual is a product of his environment then each of us is guilty of contributing to the commission of the crime. Further, at what number do you conclude that you have implicated all persons that the law deems contributory in the litigation of the accused.

Keep This Simple.

Start with the teacher. Then, let the hammer fall where it will.......

SCENE I. A desert place.
Thunder and lightning. Enter three Witches
First Witch
When shall we three meet again
In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch
When the hurlyburly's done,
When the battle's lost and won.
Third Witch
That will be ere the set of sun.

First Witch
Where the place?
Second Witch
Upon the heath.
Third Witch
There to meet with Macbeth.

First Witch
I come, Graymalkin!
Second Witch
Paddock calls.
Third Witch
Anon.

ALL
Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.

#2 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2007-04-16
But, Don't Forget... - Teachers Discussion

Good post ManchuQueue.

>Presently, the ESL/TESOL field is a cistern. A receptacle for the placement of ill-mannered, mean-spirited, uneducated (empirical and higher education), uncaring, self-aggrandizing, hypocritical and egocentric individuals that roam the world making the lives of their employers, >students and the parents of these students - MISERABLE!

All those adjectives above, though, can surely at least, equally, describe a huge number of leaders, deans, managers and administrators of many schools that employ teachers of EFL in China, be they public or private institutions. During the time I've spent in four government schools in China, I have worked alongside about fifteen foreign teacher colleagues. Of those fifteen, I can confidently say that thirteen of them have been sincere, caring, professional, hard-working individuals, and a good number of those have been exceptionally dedicated to their students. The other two, while being nice friendly guys, were not very professional in their approach to teaching.

I have seen much more unprofessionalism from the leaders at my schools than from my fellow FTs (and no I'm not being biased). At my present school for instance we have a dean who in the last year has not organized one meeting for the FTs in our school to tell us about the schools objectives for the students in our classes. The only time I've managed to gain audience with anybody was on two occasions when on my request I managed to meet with the vice-dean. Seeing the materialistic, penny-pinching, deceptive, uncaring, and often incompetent practices of most school leaders that I've worked for, I think many students of EFL, at least in China have a bigger case for suing the school owners and managers rather than the teachers.

Another thing that should be borne in mind is that the host almost invariably has the choice of who he invites as a guest. Also being responsible for the conditions he offers his guests surely he shouldn't complain if he isn't able to attract as many of the quality guests he would like, if his conditions are severely lacking in quality. As far as I know foreign teachers do not force employers to hire them at gunpoint. I'm not saying that EFL teachers should not be held accountable for their actions but surely if a student really feels that a teacher has cheated them out of their rightful due of a proper education, due to incompetence, or apathy, then surely the buck stops with the employer who willingly choose to employ him: the same employer who EFL students are usually paying an arm and a leg to, for what is often advertized as something along the lines of "The best product that money can buy". Yes the student pays the EMPLOYER not the TEACHER. If you're paying the doctor, sue the doctor, if you're paying the hospital then before suing the doctor, surely you'd start with the people who knowingly and willingly employed the incompetent doctor- those who are taking your money on the understanding that they will hire the best people by providing good conditions and remunerations to attract the best. As has often been said before- EFL schools get what they pay for.

Again I'm not saying that EFL teachers should not be accountable for their actions, but in a debate about the legitimacy of suing teachers for professional incompetency, certainly in the context of EFL in China the culpability of their employers should not be ignored.

#3 Parent ManchuQueue - 2007-04-15
Educational Malpractice - Teachers Discussion

Presently, the ESL/TESOL field is a cistern. A receptacle for the placement of ill-mannered, mean-spirited, uneducated (empirical and higher education), uncaring, self-aggrandizing, hypocritical and egocentric individuals that roam the world making the lives of their employers, students and the parents of these students - MISERABLE!

It is painfully apparent that something has to be done to give credence to this burgeoning profession in the near future or it will collapse under the weight of its own misconduct. Oh, it will survive, the need for teachers/instructors is too great and the talent pool is exceedingly shallow.

Fish, in his previous posts touched on several salient points for consideration. Before embarking upon one of life's great adventures (teaching in a foreign country) one must acquire a very small vocabulary and have a thorough understanding of these two words. HOST and GUEST. You must be intelligent enough to discern into which category you belong and the obligations and responsibilities inherent therein. One CANNOT teach in a foreign land without an understanding of these two words. Western individualism and familiarity have broken down too many barriers of international/cultural discourse and left us without respect for the other persons customs/morals/ethics/values/culture.

To further compound our problem this deterioration of respect for others has spilled into the classroom. Too many persons hired as teachers do not care about the quality of the product they are dispensing to the students.

An efficacy is needed. What can provide the impetus to clean out the cesspool? TESOL Law. This is not the panacea for the problems facing the ESL industry but may well be the catalyst that starts the healing process.

TESOL LAW. Personally, I believe the time has come for educational malpractice law to be applied to the ESL teacher. When one is held accountable for his actions, when he is held to a higher standard, a higher order, when he is expected to produce, when lame excuses are no longer acceptable, when the threat of a malpractice lawsuit hangs over his head, when the welfare and obligation to the student and the family of the student are in the forefront then, and only then, will the English Teaching Community the world over be permitted to take a step back, take a deep breath, emit a collective sigh of relief and say to themselves, "Damn, I did a good job today! I'm proud to be an TESOL teacher."

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