Please don't insult my intelligence by saying someone who speaks cheesy "Indian English" is as qualified to teach it as a true "native speaker." I can't even imagine the result of a Chinese person trying to imitate the way an Indian speaks English. It's the blind leading the blind. Here in my small city I've seen teachers from the Philippines, Greece and Eastern Europe. It's a travesty. Not only do they often agree to work for less money than true native speakers and, therefore, drive the salaries down, but their spoken English is often just a small notch above the locals they're trying to teach. I fear that in 50 years or so "World English" will be diluted to the point that native speakers will barely recognize their own language. It's bad enough that there is already "American" and "British" English. Dealing with only 2 variations is at least in the realm of the possible. Adding dozens of new ways of butchering English will only lead to more confusion. I'm sorry if this offends people but it's true. I'm delighted that much of the world is choosing to learn my language but in the absence of truly "standard" Spoken English we need to at least attempt to keep the number of possible pronunciations of words to two, not 10 or more. As an American I find myself quite often saying things like "I say car but British people say kah." THAT I can handle. If I need to add, "And Indians say this, and Africans that, blah blah blah" why even bother to teach the language at all?

Hey...

This is a crazy question... If you want to learn Mandarin who would you like to be your teacher? One from Beijing or from Manila? Well, Ask the American students who learn Mandarin in Anshan, the only problem they always said .. chinese teacher cant speak English so they cant understand what the lesson
about. So, If I am going to answer your question.. I prefer Manila teacher if she can explain to me well what the lesson is about. and If I am learning.

Hey, Why people here are so stupid to fight about Native speakers and Non- Native speakers? You people come to China not to fight over to teaches well.. but to help the schools educate the children.

Well, I would have to say this is THE question for teaching here in China.

I have an English degree, a TEFL and 6 months teaching experience but would I call myself a qualified teacher? I don't know. I try very hard but sometimes I am discouraged by the other teachers around me, they have fun and drink at the bars or chase the girls while I can't seem to find enough hours in the day to get it all finished.

To teach in Canada, my home country, I would have to go back to school for at least one more year. I might do so in the future. The problem is, if I could join the Teacher's Union in Canada, I probably wouldn't travel here to China to teach. The pay here in China isn't enough to attract those teachers, I can barely afford to stay here with my student loan bills.

So there it is, the age old question. Qualified teachers vs economics.

I have had great students and I think they deserve the best teaching there is and I always try to give it to them. I have seen some horribly unqualified teachers but the school is happy with them.

What do you do?

I can't answer that question.

In Response To: Non-native english speakers as teachers - Teachers Discussion (rose)

While these are all good points, wit hthe possible exception of the previous poster, one very important point has not been raised.

The majority of Chinese students, and their parents, do not want non-native speakers teacing their children.

Forget everything about who is more qualified. Even the best educational instititions are also businesses, and it is in everyone's interest to keep their students and customers happy.

I have seen voracious complaints received on unsuspecting management for offerring a Phillipino as a native speaker.

The fact is that it is common sense to please your customers and students. Teachers from the USA andthe UK do this far better that equally qualified people from other Asian or African countries.
...................................................

Believe me, I do not agree with you. I have observed and seen it all with my own eyes. I used to send my 2 daughters to a language school but was appalled by the standards of 2 American teachers. One was barely 20 and the other a lady(40+). Apart from being white, that young kid didn't know what he was doing in the class room and as for that poor lady, she has a very heavy Latin accent.

When the school started they had about 250 students, mine included. Nobody knew anything about these teachers until we parents were invited to observed their lessons. The invitation was sent to us because some students complained that they couldn't understand the teachers. My poor old heart almost failed me when I saw that American kid in the class room. He was speaking like a bullet train and what I didn't understand was that some parents were clapping and giving him a big hand. I raised my hand and asked that kid if he is absolutely certain that he is being understood by the students. He was shocked and didn't say a word.

That poor lady she didn't impressed me either. It was really quite difficult to understand her Latin filled English accent.

Some of the parents were shocked when we had a meeting with the teachers. I told them that their kids and mine would not be able to learn anything from these Americans. Why should I pay a large sum of money when I can do a better job than them. Had it not been for my job (commercial pilot) I would not have sent my children there.

In a space of 2 months there were barely 20 kids left in that school. The owner had no alternative but to hire a teacher from Singapore on a part time basis. That guy managed to attract the students back but sadly had to quit as the university where he was teaching would not permit him to teach part-time.

The owner and most of the parents were willing to offer him extra money to teach but he was happy and remained where he was. It's a crying shame.

To me, it doesn't really matter if a teacher is White, Black, Yellow, Blue or Green. The main thing is that he or she is able to make himself/herself understood and know what teaching is all about.

And as for you, lady, I am not sure where you're from and if you are native speaking teacher. But if you are, I wouldn't want you to teach my children, either. A teacher who couldn't get her spelling right shouldn't be teaching at all.

Are you a native speaker, Louis ?
What about your writing mistakes ?
I have never heard of " educational instititions "before.It`s not the only mistake.
There are few ones, who really deserve to be called " English teachers " indeed. Yingwen Laoshi is one of them.
In Hong Kong, British teachers are preferred, because Americans are "superficial and arrogant." This is the general opinion there and it has nothing to do with historical matters.

Guys!!!
This is another form of discrimination to any teachers from non-native English speaking countries. I suggest you people to visit Manila and confirm how ignorant people may seem. The qualification of a good teacher is not based on race or nationality we know that very well. Most call centres around the world are based in big cities in the Philippines, it is amusing that people from North America cannot recognize where the voice is from when they are conversing and sometimes they get mad when they discover that the agent is actually a Filipino. Let us just give everyone equal opportunity of employment in teaching. The question is, are some Natives insecure of Non natives because they have to share the pie?

Yes, being a native speaker is extremely important, for a number of reasons.

While the level of English fluency in the general populace is quite low, there are a number of Chinese nationals teaching English in the PRC with exceptional levels of English. If some of these people, speaking English at fluent or near fluent levels as a second language, wouldn't qualify at a "native" English speaker, why should someone from Cameroon, India, or the Philippines?

Interesting point. However the history and usage of English is different in the Philippines, India and Cameroon, than it is in China.

In the Philippines, Filipino and English are the official languages. English has been used as the medium of instruction in schools in the Philippines for decades. This does not qualify Filipinos as native speakers but it would mean that they could rightly, generally claim higher salaries for teaching EFL in China than a Chinese national could. Please check the following sources:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Philippines

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061120030502AAwrslB

As we all know India used to be a colony of Britain. This colonization goes back more than a century, so the history of the English language has had a great influence on the people in India. English is the most widely spoken language in India after Hindi, and India still has the third largest English-speaking population in the world. Look at the following article to see how much talent there is in Indian society in the use of English. This is why Indian nationals with good English speaking skills are generally paid a higher salary than Chinese nationals who teach English in China. Again, please check the following link:-

http://www.chillibreeze.com/articles/EnglishinIndia.asp

The official languages of Cameroon are English and French. Part of the country was colonized by the British last century. The languages of instruction in schools in Cameroon are English and French. Please refer to Goerge Echu's article titled "The Language Question in Cameroon" (the link is below this paragraph), to see how widespread the use of English is in the Cameroon. This is why good English speaking teachers from the Cameroon will generally expect a higher salary than their Chinese national counterparts when it comes to teaching English in China.

http://www.linguistik-online.de/18_04/echu.html

The market in China is dictated to provide students with intimate access to western culture as well as language. The fact is that this is what students and parents want when spending the high tuition foreign teachers salary's require. Most non-native speakers cannot provide this

I think the "Access to Western culture argument" as an argument for not using non-native speakers in China is pretty weak. Firstly, could you define what you mean by culture? The term "Western Culture", is very vague. What is "Western Culture"? Could you define it in more specific and detailed terms? Also are Chinese students learning a language or a culture? My experience of teaching English in China is that Chinese students are not REALLY interested in learning "Western Culture". They are just curious about some of the basic differences in the way we live in the West as opposed to China. Serious students of English in China are much more concerned that a teacher speaks English clearly, and fluently and teaches in a competent and interesting way, than whether he can teach "Western culture".

Although Chinese students generally profess a primary interest in Western culture, it does not mean that this is the only culture they are interested in. Switch on the TV. Take a trip to see cultural exhibitions and performances in parks, theatres and at concerts in China and see that Chinese people have an interest in people and countries all over the world. There are in fact indications that many Chinese people are getting slightly fed up of Western culture (which China has become swamped with in the last few years) and are increasingly looking further afield for something more exotic (for instance in Africa and South America).

This is also reflected in the interest students take in teachers of English from other countries outside the big five. Are you saying that Chinese students ONLY want Western culture? If you mean that they MAINLY want Western culture then surely there is still a place for non-native speakers of English to teach in China. In any case as I stated earlier the teaching of "culture" is not that important to Chinese students. It's more of a curiosity than anything else, and that curiosity extends to countries all over the world.

As is mentioned above, people like and want the American accent, even the British accent. No one wants to emulate Indian English intonations.
Consider yourself, as a foreigner living in China interested in Mandarin. Do you want your Mandarin teacher to be from Beijing or from Manila

Chinese students may generally prefer to speak English with an American or British accent, but that does not mean that they are happy to have ANY American or English person teaching them English. While working in a chain English school in Beijing I personally witnessed two native-speakers (both white by the way)-one from England and one from America- rejected by the school because the students considered their accents too broad for them to understand. No-one wants to emulate poor sub-standard English uttered by native-speakers, either.
Students in China are increasingly recognizing that there are many non native English teachers who speak better English than many native speakers.

If I wanted to be taught Chinese I would not base my choice of teacher on nationality alone. It's interesting that you only gave the option of a choice of Chinese teacher from ONE city in China. Would you want your Chinese teacher to be a worker from a small village in Yunnan, or an educated person from Manila with good, fluent, standard Chinese speaking skills?

Because of the difference in history of the English experience between China and many other countries in the world, many English speakers from these other countries can expect higher salaries than their Chinese counterparts when teaching English in China even though they are not classed as native speakers. If someone comes from a country where English is the language of instruction at school, this would increase their chances of internalizing the language.

You mentioned the importance of "culture". Non-native English speakers have countries too. These countries also have culture, so they too can bring something fresh, interesting and new to China that Chinese nationals cannot.

As regards learning Chinese, I would prefer a competent Chinese native-speaker to teach me Chinese. However, If the Chinese language had a similar history in Cameroon, India, and the Philippines as the English language has, then I would certainly have no problem with a competent teacher from one of the above countries, who spoke standard Chinese fluently, teaching me Chinese.

Clearly people who are genuine teachers, with proper education degrees and classroom experience, are preferable to those who are not qualified as such.

China has a high number of foreigners teaching English who are not qualified, not to teach or from my experience, to hold any kind of professional job even in their own home countries. There are truely alot of wankers working in this country, and a good number of them reguraly post on these pages I suspect, judging from many of the things I have read here.

The question on this link however is about Native as opposed to non-Native speaking teachers. Assumming we are talking about experienced teachers, I agree with some of the posts above that there is absolutly no question that native speakers are much preferred and serve their students better.

Any language student would want a native speaker teaching them as opposed to someone speaking as a second language. I agree with all of Leonardo's points above.

Yes, being a native speaker is extremely important, for a number of reasons.

While the level of English fluency in the general populace is quite low, there are a number of Chinese nationals teaching English in the PRC with exceptional levels of English. If some of these people, speaking English at fluent or near fluent levels as a second language, wouldn't qualify at a "native" English speaker, why should someone from Cameroon, India, or the Phillipines?

The market in China is dictated to provide students with intimate access to western culture as well as language. The fact is that this is what students and parents want when spending the high tuition foreign teachers salary's require. Most non-native speakers cannot provide this.

As is mentioned above, people like and want the American accent, even the British accent. No one wants to emulate Indian English intonations.

Consider yourself, as a foreigner living in China interested in Mandarin. Do you want your Mandarin teacher to be from Beijing or from Manila?

These are only a few of the most obvious examples. What I recommend to non-native speakers interested in teaching is to seek opportunities to teach your own native language.

I would like all visitors to this website,which we hold in
high esteem,to start a discussion on whether non-native speakers
are in any way inferior to their native brethren.I'm from
India and I, like millions of other Indians,am as fluent
in English as our native friends.So, when I see ads
mention
"job open to native speakers only",I find it rather amusing.
Native speakers from certain countries can't boast of a neutral
accent.Can this be considered a bias?Why are millions
of
English speakers around the globe(non-native,mind you)
thought
unfit for English teaching jobs?Will somebody please answer?