TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent Sittingduck - 2007-08-12
Answers - Teachers Discussion

"Just a few questions, though. I hope you don't mind, but the answers might be useful to other foreign teachers who work summer camps:- "

1. Were you paid in full, or did they hold some of your pay back?

We were all 50rmb short. We did not mention it, we were just happy to be paid at that point. One teacher claims to be an extra 200rmb short with regards to something that I am unaware of. There was an attempt to mention it but it was quickly shot down and it wasn't pursued.

2. You said you were made to wait. How long did you have to wait for your money and why?

We had to wait for more than one hour while management's boss returned from a meeting. Then we were lectured. I was accused of spoiling the good relationship between management and the original teachers. This is interesting as I was initially very reserved about saying anything and was just going along with the others.

3. What exactly were these regular payments that they promised? Was it not just a ten day camp?

The clause was ," Party A will pay party B regularly". I personally had no concerns about this at the beginning but after the others, that had been working with "management" on another project, started to become nervous, one of the original teachers brought it to their attention. Management's reaction was what really made us nervous.

It is possible that a lot of the problems were cultural but we were never able to feel confident due to their behaviour and because of the fact we knew that students had been fed a lot of false information.

#2 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2007-08-11
That's Good News! - Teachers Discussion

Good to hear that everything turned out OK.

That was a very clever move you made in making connections with parents and local leaders. There's a good chance that that contributed to you being paid in the end. It's something I will definitely bear in mind if I take any summer camps in the future.

Just a few questions, though. I hope you don't mind, but the answers might be useful to other foreign teachers who work summer camps:-

1. Were you paid in full, or did they hold some of your pay back?

2. You said you were made to wait. How long did you have to wait for your money and why?

3. What exactly were these regular payments that they promised? Was it not just a ten day camp?

I'm not nit-picking- I just think the answers could be of good help to other international teachers.

All the best.

#3 Parent Sittingduck - 2007-08-09
We Were Paid - Teachers Discussion

I'm not sure if the fact that we developed a lot of connections in the remaining days, with students' families, leaders in the community and other people that we met, made a difference or not. Certainly, we became more confident after meeting more people that were welcoming us to return to the region in the future. We never mentioned our concerns to any of these people but we had accumulated enough contacts to cause a problem if something did go down.
It definitely wasn't a pleasant experience as it was a game of 'cat and mouse' the whole time as we tried to cover our behinds in case of the worst.
We were made to wait and given a lecture that we should be more trusting of Chinese people, but we were finally paid.

#4 Parent Tis - 2007-08-07
Why to stay there? - Teachers Discussion

Don't know why you still there. That school do not respect you. Possible they won't pay you and try to put blame on you. Quit right now and post a black list warning with their names, location.. for other teachers to avoid them.

Best >\-|

#5 Parent Sittingduck - 2007-08-06
Summercamp - Teachers Discussion

I appreciate the time you put into your response, all of which is good advice.
I do have the proper documentation to teach in China and a school to return to after this camp. The 'management' have tried very hard to turn it into a "you dont like Chinese" situation. I never mentioned Chinese people once in these discussions but that is where it is at now. They asked me why I dont trust them so I told them that it has happened to me before. Their behavior has been predictable in many situations. If I am hypothesising and the results are as predicted then I become a little worried. They seem to have taken this as a large insult and said that if I dont trust Chinese people I shouldnt be in China.
They have told us that we should trust them and that they will pay us in the hotel.

#6 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2007-08-06
Teaching and Business - Teachers Discussion

Hi, Sitting Duck,

I can understand your concerns. I would feel the same way if I was in your shoes.

I'm not sure I can be of much use because although I've been in China a good number of years I've only taken part in one summer camp. My circumstances were different to yours because at the time I took camp I had already been working for the school for a couple of months and had already signed a contract to work with the same school from the following September. So the chances of getting ripped of were less than usual. I got paid in full.

It seems to me that summer camps are often the riskiest ventures an EFL teacher can undertake in China. Firstly, because the job is of a very temporary nature many teachers teach on an 'F' visa, and I believe this may not be technically legal, and may leave such a teacher open to abuse by opportunists and conmen. Even if a teacher is halfway through a contract with another school and has a legitimate 'Z' visa and resident permit that has another six months or so on it, I'm still not sure if that is 100% legal, because our resident permits are usually valid only for the school who issued it to us. I'm not mentioning all this so as to make a moral judgement on anybody, but to try to work out all the possible traps a teacher could encounter when working in a summer camp.

Obviously the ideal situation for a teacher, security wise, would be if he was actually taking a summer camp for a school that he was already working for and which had already provided a legal resident permit and 'Z' visa. I believe however that most teachers do not have such ideal conditions when working summer camps.

"Sitting Duck",

It would help your case a bit if you had at least a legal 'Z' visa and resident permit from your other school, which you hinted at having in your post. I think it's a good move to ask for a weekly payment at a summer camp especially if it's indicated in the contract. How is this "Regular payment" worded, exactly? How long is the camp for? I think you should firmly, but politely insist on half-payment, halfway through your assignment. Obviously ask for this in advance, and at the same time ask for another quarter of your payment to be paid at the three-quarter mark of your camp. Just to make sure you get the last quarter of your payment you could politely insist on the last quarter being paid the afternoon before the final day of your camp. I would even consider asking for DAILY payment of my salary at a summer camp. If I was in your position that's what I would do. Of course the ideal time to insist on all of this is before the camp starts and the contract is signed. If you find yourself short-changed at the end of your contract, politely but firmly notify the school that you won't leave until you have received what was promised. If push comes to shove, notify the PSB or FAO in the city and explain the situation fully (Be cautious when approaching the authorities, though, because you may not be 100% legal). If you're confident about your legal position call the police (ring 110 and ask for somebody who can speak English:if you have good Chinese-speaking skills, even better).

Edit:

Sorry I've just reread the part where you said the camp has nearly finished. You can still use the above for future reference, though. You could still insist on payment the afternoon before your last day of teaching. I don't think that's unreasonable, considering they haven't paid you the promised regular payments as stated in the contract. In any case if they refuse to pay what was agreed at the end of the camp, you and your colleagues should all stick together and refuse to leave until they pay you what is promised in the contract. TRY to avoid argument. DONT FIGHT. Just be polite but firm. Always make sure that one of you is in the school if you go out and seek help from the authoriies (local PSB and FAO).

Tread carefully while doing the above. Before doing any of the above try to reason with them. Tell them you've stuck to your agreement and if they want to show honour to their country, they should honour their agreement. Isolate them, especially if there are witnesses. Tell them that you like China and Chinese people, but what they are doing is bringing dishonour on their country and their fellow Chinese people. You may find that others around them will take your side and exert pressure on the one responsible for paying you. I have found that if you take a firm, polite stand with Chinese people when they know that you are right, after some time most will give in.

Because of the exceptionally temporary nature of EFL/ESL summer camps they attract a greater percentage of conmen than regular schools in China do. These bosses could easily disappear after having a team of foreign teachers working for them for a month and resurface a short time later in a new office with a new name and different office and mobile telephone numbers. What hope would a teacher have in finding such a person if he does a runner without paying him his salary? Apart fom the above I can't think of anything else you could do. Whatever you do, don't let things degenerate into slanging matches and don't condemn ALL Chinese people, or they will close ranks, and you will have a HUGE battle on your hands. Make the INDIVIDUAL feel ashamed.

To anybody contemplating taking part in summer camps, I advise you to take even more care than you would take when choosing a school, than you would if you were contemplating a years contract with a school (unless you don't mind spending one or two of your summer months teaching boisterous children in hot sweaty classrooms for NOTHING). A colleague of mine who is halfway through a one year contract at my college, just recently came back from a three week summer camp in a neighbouring city and only got paid 2000 RMB at the end of the three weeks, when his contract stated that he would be paid 5000. What pissed me off, was not just the fact that the school/company ripped him off, but that he accepted it too easily.

Advice for working at summer camps:-

1. If possible try to work directly for a school instead of relying on payment from a third party (company or recruiter). This can make things more complicated if there's a later disagreement over salary.

2. Always insist on a proper signed and sealed contract with all the important agreements written in. Don't say "It's only a few weeks, why bother?" Even one day is too long a time to work for nothing when you've agreed to be paid. DON'T SIGN THE CONTRACT UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH IT. If they are being unreasonable, LEAVE!

3. Before you agree to work at the camp ask for at least two e-mail addresses of foreign teachers who have recently worked a camp at the school, and check them out thoroughly. Speak with them by phone if necessary.

4. Remember, especially in the context of summer camps, you are not just a teacher you are also a BUSINESSPERSON. A businessperson does not have to negotiate from a position of complete trust, especially when they do business for the first time with someone they have never met before. Negotiate yourself into a position that minimizes the risk of you taking a financial loss. You don't have to own a shop, company or school to be a businessperson. We are business people too. We are not just teachers.

5. Following on from above, ask for regular part payments of your wage/salary throughout the time at your camp. I would insist BEFORE I sign the contract that I get paid half of my salary halfway through, and the next quarter, three-quarters of the way through. Better still, I would ask for daily payment of my wage/ salary.

6. Make sure that you have the full name (especially their Chinese name )of the person responsible for paying your salary as well as their e-mail, and office and mobile phone numbers. Also take as many contacts of other people in charge as you can.

7. Take note of the full address and location of the school you are working at. (If you are working through a company then Points 6 and 7 apply to them too).

8. Try to choose better known, well established schools, rather than schools with names that are uncheckable on the Internet, and that nobody has heard of.

9. The most important point is to show some backbone. Believe me, if some of these school leaders see you as an easy target they will take you to the cleaners. A girlfriend of a former FT colleague of mine was told by the leader at their new school that he likes foreign teachers who have just arrived for the first time off the plane in China, BECAUSE THEY ARE EASY TO CHEAT!" Taking reasonable precautions to avoid being cheated, is NOT causing trouble.

10. Always work on a "Z' visa and resident permit. Yes even when working on summer camps. It gives you more clout, if schools renege on the contract.

11. One major mistake foreign teachers make in China is that they want everybody to LOVE them. Now, I'm not saying you should deliberately look for trouble or make yourself unpopular, but too much of a desire to please can often make yourself easy prey for vulture-like school leaders.

12. Lastly, don't allow any job in China or anywhere for that matter to be THAT important to you. If you are not happy with the conditions before you sign or you "smell a rat", simply leave and seek a better position. Avoid leaving yourself in such a desperate financial position that you feel obligated to take a crappy position.

Of course you could follow all the above points and STILL get ripped off, but you would be greatly minimizing the risk of that happening.

As I've said before it can be a very enjoyable experience teaching EFL in China, but commonsense is needed in order to avoid the conmen and opportunists.

By the way, I am not claiming to be an expert on EFL in China. I'm just giving a few tips regarding what's worked for me, and stating what I would do in certain situations.

Good luck, "Sitting Duck". I sincerely hope that you DON'T live up to your name. Please keep the forum updated on what transpires.

Sittingduck - 2007-08-05
Summer camp dilemma - Teachers Discussion

I'm teaching at a camp but I am now of the belief that I will not be paid everything I am owed. The contract states 'regularly' but after one week I ,and the other teachers, have received nothing. When I brought up the matter the 'management' got very defensive and said that, "We have treated you nicely and we will pay you at completion." However, I have been noticing small changes in their behavior since arriving, which makes me a little suspicious. They have told us that they (company) will be paid by the government and they will in turn pay us. They have told us to tell the students that we are teachers of a certain university (we are not). We all have legitimate full-time jobs in other places once summer finishes.
Students have given me and other teachers praise for our classes so I know it isn't about teaching quality. The 'company' itself has never mentioned teaching quality.
I am really concerned that they are going to try to screw us but I am unsure what to do about it. The camp will end in a few days.

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