TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent Kevin - 2007-12-20
Re: Change, and What it Takes

True enough Yingwen - many teachers are lured here with false promises, and that includes "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly." But I think it's fair to recognize that, though there are far too many instances where foreigners are misled by recruiters and/or schools, the bottom line is that this is not seen as acceptable behavior by the government. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is a point of frustration for them and for anyone who has high hopes for the future of this country. For example, I know for certain that the Dean of my college, in that he must satisfy the need for foreign teachers, feels very frustrated by the pool of applicants he must choose from. He has confided to me that he often ends up with teachers that he usually puts on the bottom of the pile and that he only hires because there simply aren't enough qualified teachers available. During the course of the school year, some of those teachers are so ineffective or behave in such inappropriate ways that he has no choice but to fire them, which leaves the rest of us having to put in overtime.

Well, certainly the blame for the above problem should be spread around. But the bottom line is that it is those students who are hoping to be educated in a professional, academic environment that are the ones that suffer the most - or, perhaps I should say, it is their suffering that should matter the most to those of us who are after all only guests here.

I think that due to your fair minded attitude you are trying to find a way to support the clowns, and I admire you for that. However, the more they bitch and moan, the less likely it is that my Dean or others like him will have a larger pool of applicants from which to choose.

People who complain about the way the ball bounces are usually the ones who dropped it
Anonymous

#2 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2007-12-20
Change, and What it Takes

Good post, Kevin. I wish there were more teachers like you in China.

Let me make it clear that I wasn't defending teachers who consistently do things such as turning up for class drunk, or not turning up for class at all, because they're drunk or have a slight sniffle. Nor was I defending those who have a generally unprofessional attitude, and don't turn up for class when they feel like it, and don't make any effort to give a good class, particularly when they've been told to actually teach. Those people are open to criticism.

I was defending those who have been tempted over here with promises of the good life, and have been specifically told that they don't need to, or even should not, teach. Instead they're told to play the clown and entertain. If they turn up for class every week on time, sober, and do their job as "Bozo", conscientiously, even while making no attempt to teach every week, I don't think much blame should be placed on them, if their employer, and most of the parents and students are happy and satisfied. They're only following orders (Yes I know the Gestapo said the same, but they were killing people), and if your employer says you're qualified and those in power say nothing, then you're qualified. Of course if we look at the bigger picture even those "bozos" are part of the problem, because they are still helping to make the profession of EFL teaching in China a joke, and are contributing to the decline of teaching standards in China.

Yet, it would be understandable if they only saw the smaller picture, noticing that everybody around them, including their employers, their students and the students' parents were for the most part happy. They probably wouldn't think they were part of the problem then, because to them there would be NO problem, because they would be fulfilling what was expected of them. Of course if there is no problem then no solution is needed.

If the government, both nationally and locally, are taking steps to make positive reform as regards EFL teaching in China then that is a good thing. Change has to come from the top. By blaming the FTs who are conscientiously fulfilling their roles as bozo, attention is being diverted away from those really responsible for the quagmire called EFL. Let the clowns continue teaching until those in power in China, or the students and their parents, realize something needs changing. Often it's not until clear symptons are apparent that people start looking at the root cause of something.

I would never accept a job at a school that was only interested in clowning, and I don't want to play the role of "bozo" anywhere. I understand, however, why some are willing to do so. It's up to the real movers and shakers in this country to demand that they want real teachers and real teaching, and to stop demanding and inviting circus entertainers to China.

I agree with most of what you say, Kevin. Your points are good. I care about those who care in this country and that includes my students. For the sake of those, and my wife and her family, I hope this country will make the positive changes it needs to make, to help it's genuine people prosper.

I like the quotes you use at the end of your posts. Very inspiring.

#3 Parent Kevin - 2007-12-16
Re: Why Should "Bozo" Care?

Great post, but flawed in the sense that if "bozo" doesn't care, then he's not "part of the solution, he's part of the problem."

The Beijing government has, by the way, begun to pressure the local governments in this regard. Investigations are under way, albeit not all that noticeably yet, due to the realization that reporters from all over the world will be arriving in droves next year. Even the more famous franchise schools, such as Linguaphone are now being carefully scrutinized: Teachers are being taken to local police stations and being asked pertinent questions regarding their visas and their qualifications.

Yes, it's only a snowball's worth of scrutiny now, but you know how it is in China - it doesn't take long for that snowball to become an avalanche.

Where public schools and universities are concerned, one of the most recent changes is that "teachers" who have been fired for incompetence and/or actions not befitting an instructor at a university will have their names entered into a computer system that will "flag" them when they attempt to get a visa for a different job. Sure, they'll still be able to find a private school, or whatever, until the investigations gain momentum, but the change is coming.

Yes, there is still a high demand for teachers and, yes, the system is still such that clowns are in high demand, but ultimately it will be such that it's more about quality and less about quantity.

And listen, this is not because I have a personal ax to grind against unqualified foreign teachers - per se. No, this is because I care about the young people here. And I care about the future of this country. I've seen too much to pretend to be tunnel visioned. Moreover, though I realize I may come off as insensitive in regards to my "colleagues," I see no real value in muting my concerns.

I suppose I could have remained silent had it not been for the plethora of posts that, instead of focusing on the issues, and offering solutions, other than the totally inane idea of forming a union, inevitably include advice to stay away from China. Such advice will only decrease the likelihood of talented and dedicated teachers coming here. And, as you know, they are sorely needed. Without a pool of qualified applicants, from which employers can choose teachers based on experience and education, they are left with little choice but to hire those whose applications have initially been placed at the bottom of the pile.

Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Dr. Seuss

#4 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2007-12-15
Why Should "Bozo" Care?

"What's even worse, though, at least in my opinion, is how these '"teachers," once they've been ripped off by recruiters and/or private schools, end up in the public school system - even at the university level. Now they're not the victims anymore. In fact, by disseminating the crap they call teaching, they are now the victimizers. Sadly, the administrators of these schools are well aware of how the majority of their foreign staffs are ill-qualified to be in the positions for which they've been hired; however, the pressure is on them to provide white faces for the students, and so they must each look the other way and privately bemoan the glaringly obvious truth that their foreign staff is composed of a high percentage of bozos."

The quote above is from the opening post of this thread, which was made by Kevin.

The problems that you accurately pointed out Kevin are symptons of the greed and opportunity for riches that has caught hold of many "entrepeneurs" (The leaders and owners of schools) in China.

Remember though that those "Bozos" and "teachers" were initially invited or at least tempted over here by such promises as "Come and see beautiful...", "No degree needed..." When they get here many are told, "Don't worry just keep them happy and make them (the students), laugh". It's a shame that many of the managers and owners of these schools cannot follow the same philosophy when it comes to the treatment of their teachers. I recently read on another forum about a university teacher who has been going through hell with an unteachable class. The remedy according to his manager was to just go in and stand at the front of the class and "Pretend to teach them".

If the only requirement is to entertain, sing, dance or tell jokes in exchange for an opportunity of cheap beer, and an opportunity to explore China, can you blame those "Bozos" and the like for accepting the offer? The school leaders and owners make the rules. The FTs are just fulfilling what has been asked of them.

So, as you correctly point out many FTs get fed up. "Hey this ain't as easy as I thought. I've sung "Yesterday once more" about a hundred times, but when I've inquired about my salary, I've been told, "tomorrow" about two hundred times. I'm off to a public school. I've heard that they're more trustworthy". So off goes "Bozo" to his publc school, and suddenly finds that "Yesterday once more" doesn't cut it anymore, at least not every week, anyway.

"Thats funny, they loved my jokes at the training school. I thought that's what they wanted here. Bloody humourless lot!" So it goes on...

Why is the pressure, at these public schools, put on administration to provide white faces and NOT to provide teachers? Is it because the leaders are less interested in the development of the students than in the development of their bank accounts? Each public school is given a certain quota each year to cover all expenses of each foreign teacher they employ. There's an opportunity for siphoning here.

The problem at many of these public schools, especially colleges and universities is that many of the STUDENTS require real teachers. So "Bozo" doesn't get his contract renewed. He probably doesn't care anyway because after a brief surf of the Internet he's back in business at another school. So it goes on, and it will keep going on.

I would only blame those FTs that deliberately refuse to make any effort to really teach if they were TOLD to. Even if they try hard but fail they can hardly be blamed when those who first called them to China only required the ability to entertain. They didn't realize that they might be finally called upon to teach.

However, now that he loves China, the scenery, the women, the cheap beer, and the alternative lifestyle, he doesn't want to go BACK. Why should he? He might even have a serious relationship going on over here. So he either keeps hacking it with the public schools until he gets the hang of teaching or he "once more enters the breech" of the training centres and language schools, this time spitting venom, determined to hold his corner as he is no longer a China babe, but is now older and wiser. So it goes on...

until...

no more schools are tempting FTs over to China with promises of long vacations, seeing beautiful China, drinking cheap beer and only needing to possess the minimum of "qualifications".

until...

the greed and selfishness of many who open those schools that go on to cheat their staff, their students, and the students' parents, is somehow abated.

until...

the students themselves in private schools start realizing that they should not be angry because their FT is not telling any good jokes or refuses to sing enough Celine Dion songs, but they should be angry that he DOES sing songs every week, and angry with the management that sent for him and told him to sing songs every week.

until...

the rich supposedly, educated parents who are paying a small fortune for their children to attend these schools, start seeing them as more than baby-sitting institutions. If they really want their children to learn English why are they not banging on the school leaders office door in droves campaigning for real teachers? So it goes on...

Until...

those same parents stop thinking about face and "keeping up with the Jones'", and start pulling their children out of those schools for good.

Until...

the leaders of this country do something about the scores of rogue training centres up and down the country, and start putting the future prosperity of it's country, and it's children before the mighty dollar.

The Government doesn't care. The education board doesn't care. The training school owners, leaders, and managers, don't care. Even the students and their parents don't care enough or something would have been done by now, because they have the real power to stop it. They're signing the cheques, and they keep signing, so they must be fairly content. In fact everybody seems to be happy. Don't they? So...

why should "Bozo" care?

#5 Parent extefler - 2007-12-08
Re: for what it's worth

I also agree with you, Kevin. Your post is well-thought out and critically written, of which many of us can only hope to understand. You must have known there would be naysayers and denigrators, and you wrote to us anyway. Listen to the naysayers, as they have voice also, and for no other reason than to bolster the strength of your own opinion.

By using critical thinking and critical process, you can see right from wrong and open from closed mindedness. Evidently critical process hasn't come yet to those who rely on 20th century English literature for their academic and intellectual development.

Kevin - 2007-12-06
for what it's worth

It never ceases to amaze me that after all this time and all these warnings about scam recruiters and phony schools and training centers in China there is still a large pool of unaware teachers for said recruiters to "feed on." Yes, they are completely amoral; however, their victims apparently are the least sensible people on the planet.

There are multiple sources of information for teachers who wish to teach abroad. But therein lies part of the problem. The vast majority of "teachers" coming here, are not qualified to teach in their own countries anyway. Therefore their best potential source of information, their colleagues, are non-existent. However, having no colleagues to advise them, doesn't mean they need go willy nilly off to a foreign country with their Pollyanna hopes of the ideal teaching environment miraculously materializing. Indeed, you'd think they would do a little research.

I would guess, no I take it back - I can't begin to guess how many warnings about teaching EFL have been posted on the internet. And yet they keep coming and we keep reading about the rip off recruiters and the BS schools.

What's even worse, though, at least in my opinion, is how these '"teachers," once they've been ripped off by recruiters and/or private schools, end up in the public school system - even at the university level. Now they're not the victims anymore. In fact, by disseminating the crap they call teaching, they are now the victimizers. Sadly, the administrators of these schools are well aware of how the majority of their foreign staffs are ill-qualified to be in the positions for which they've been hired; however, the pressure is on them to provide white faces for the students, and so they must each look the other way and privately bemoan the glaringly obvious truth that their foreign staff is composed of a high percentage of bozos.

Sooner or later, though, the students will wise up. But that's another story. Meanwhile, those of us who have worked hard to become qualified teachers must often, embarrassingly, work along side complete idiots who are getting paid the same as we are. What's worse, though, is that we have to observe the garbage they throw out there and call teaching, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Yes, many people who come to China are victimized by unscrupulous recruiters and school owners that turn out to be cheaters that are totally uninterested in real education. But on the other hand, many of the victimized become the victimizers. In a perfect world they would have the decency to go back to their unskilled labor jobs in America, or wherever, and stop negatively influencing the young people of this country with the crap they call English teaching. But of course this is not a perfect world and we are definitely not perfect beings...............

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