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#1 Parent Panpan - 2008-01-08
Re: Change, and What it Takes/linguisticus

Woooohooooo!!! Ride on extefler and linguisticus!Tell them!I like your last statement;'I personally would much rather have them build a decent bridge than use perfect grammar'.
What some posters write on this forum is totally out of context because it seems to me from their postings,they are not in this planet earth.They are SOOOOO far away from reality.
But you guys, extefler and linguisticus really hit the nail in the head.This forum needs more people with unbiased minds like you guys.
Some people went to China and forgot their mission.They want to change Chinese system which has been like that since time immemorial.I remember an adage that says and i quote;'Charity begins at home' which translates to,if you want to effect a change in anything,start from your home country/household and let the whole wide world know you brought about the change before you can crucify other people's ways of doing things.
People should try to dwell on the positive and make the best use of every situation they find themselves in.
Again,i am commending you guys to keep up the good work and don't relent in your postings.

Everly yours

Panpan

#2 Parent extefler - 2008-01-07
Re: Change, and What it Takes/linguisticus

First of all, studying verb conjugation and tenses IS pure torture, for almost all of us, in any language! But so is memorizing the Periodic Chart, learning cranial nerves, and figuring loading stresses.

You're right in your story about the boy, Linguisticus. So often they study just to score well on exams to move on to the next level. I did that in some classes, and I bet you did too. I don't know how many times I told myself that if I ever need to use it in some practical way, I'd just have to go back and study it again. (Try making the Kreb's Cycle interesting to physiology students.)

Unfortunately, that's student life in a nutshell. Learn enough to move on to the next level, learn what's going to be on the test, and not really caring about the subject itself. Its been four years since I've taught in China, but from what I remember the kids are pretty stressed out by how many classes they have, how much homework they do every night, and the sheer time they spend during the year just on school work. But I do recall many of them having outside interests (singers, movie stars, athletes, video games) and by engaging them in discussions about those topics in English classrooms, foreign teachers can promote a lot of the free discussion that the students sorely need. The kids that can keep up and understand and participate, more power to them. The kids that kick back and doze, well, not every kid is going to learn every subject. Its their loss, not yours. But when kids meet foreigners outside the classroom and have a "real" conversation for the very first time, they realize how different it is from what they are taught in school. It either makes them cynical, or makes them more excited about studying and particpating in class. And the day you start to care about the cynics of the world is the day they have you beat.

Let the local teachers teach the kids any way they want. Let the kids learn English in their classes to satisfy their testing standards. Foreign teachers really are there mostly for improving listening and verbal skills, and that's why schools want native English speakers. School administrators, headmasters and their local teachers want the younger students to hear and try to copy our vocal tones and meter before the kids develop too many bad habits. My congratulations go to headmasters and local teachers that acknowledge their own skill limitations, and make attempts to remedy. They fully realize they teach English the same way they teach algebra, science, and any other subject. (Except Chinese language, which has a special importance of its own, and therefore gets special treatment.) I used to follow an algebra class at a middle school, and if I got in there early enough, we would have some fun. I'd ask about what they just learned, and they would try to tell me. We'd talk about it and do some of the problems on the board in English for a few minutes before our own class started. I always enjoy asking kids about what they learned in their other classes that day, and after a while they get pretty excited telling me about it. It was usually a good way of getting them engaged in my class, and getting their brains turned on to English. Also, when I heard a common mistake on a regular basis, I would ask the students how they learned it, and asked to see their grammar assignments. My attitude and approach to correcting a taught mistake was to tell them to write down on tests whatever their teachers taught them, but I'd also give them our "common" form. I normally ended with the disclaimer that "either can be used" in conversation.

Something that many ESL teachers don't realize about tenses and tense errors is that in many languages tenses just aren't used as much as Latin-based languages, or used entirely differently. Our tenses just are not important to them, until they find out how difficult it is for us to understand and follow a conversation when they are using tenses incorrectly. I've found that writing assignments are best at correcting tense problems, as they can see in their own writing where they go astray.

Worrying about whether every student will pass their exams is the problem best left for parents, students, and local teachers. By accepting the role of exemplar that they offer you and other foreign teachers, and whole-heartedly becoming engaged in that, you can do a much greater service to everyone involved in the kids' education. AND preserve your own sanity along the way. The hard part is to not take it personally when your own language gets trashed.

Anybody that has been involved in education for more than ten minutes knows that not every learner is going to respond well to every teacher. And anybody that has been a student for more than ten minutes knows that not all teachers can teach. We all just do the best we can without having an ulcer over it. The kids you are teaching grammar to now, by virtue of the good education and the study skills and dedication and discipline they are developing, will someday become chemists, doctors or bridge builders. I personally would much rather have them build a decent bridge than use perfect grammar.

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