Wendyyahoo.ca
- 2008-02-13
Hi Fritz
I have a few concerns about your post here. You do raise a some good points but I wonder are you an English teacher or are you defending non native speaking English teachers?
fritz
- 2008-02-13
hello mr van., i am a non native english teacher in china and i wish to tell you that you still have this racist believe that non native teachers cannot teach more than chinese teachers,. well for you information i wish to tell you that non native teachers even teach more better than some of the white although not all but mijority. there are those who have studied abroad like myself and have a good and qualified accent which is unbeatable even with some native teachers. some speak and students cannot get them clearly yet you are fanatical about them.
you as a racist prefer colour and not experience in a field. so i will like to advise you that its better you experience something rather than drawing conclusions. .hope you get this right.
well babara i really appreciate your sense of judgement and i think you are right. everyone makes mistakes and africans do . but there are some well trained in a field and thus they need a place that suits their qualifications.
chinese are just fanatics and they dont want to face reality
dual
- 2008-02-03
Pinay in China,
Just accept that you are not a Native english speaker. That you can teach english but only using business management. And maybe they hired you becuase the Universities or schools are desperate. So they put you there as a clown.
I hope when you speak english you dont sound funny.
bartonfink
- 2008-01-27
Couldn't have said it better myself. An ESL teacher's quality of English inside or outside the classroom should matter. I'm glad to see that there are still many who care.
extefler
- 2008-01-26
Hi pinayinchina-
I've read several of your posts here and you seem to be taking the nationalistic pride/hurt feelings track too far. Filipino posters here in this forum in the past have also taken offense by what is written, but honestly I see little that can be seen as attacks on your country or race. Sometimes these threads are interpreted as anti-Filipino rants by the Filipinos themselves.
Teachers don't necessarily resent your presence as a teacher because of your place of birth or heritage, but because of the level of your English. You mentioned in your post that quality of writing in a forum doesn't matter, and imply we not teaching here. I believe that is where you are wrong. Maybe you are not teaching English to students, but you are teaching other teachers about Filipinos. What is the impression you are giving? If you leave an impression with others that your langauge abilities are good sometimes and at other times you don't care, what might that mean?
Just reading through your posts, and posts by other Filipinos and non-native English speakers, can be difficult and confusing. You frequently mix tenses and make tense mistakes in your posts, so often as a matter of fact, that I can only guess these mistakes are frequent even in your classroom. One of the biggest difficulties that plague Chinese students is with tense problems. If you are not using tenses correctly in your speech with your students, not only are you not correcting their errors or giving a good example, but are in fact are exacerbating and enabling the problem.
Maybe you would like to do a little experiment? Go back and read your posts, and those of other Filipinos, with a critical eye. How often are there tense problems? How often do you mix up him/her and he/she in your speech? Then ask yourself how difficult it would be for a language learner to learn from a teacher that continues to make the same mistakes that the learners make.
Once you identify yourself as a teacher, you will be judged by the quality of your expertise as a teacher. The first impression that others will have of you as an English teacher is your use of the language.
Maybe some of your pride can shift from heritage to profession. Generally, the rest of us don't care where you come from; we just care that you can do well in the classroom as a teacher. This is our profession also and we like to see high standards in all of our colleagues.
John
- 2008-01-25
Bartofink, you have done a good job in correcting the English of a poster. Imagine students learning English from a teacher who himself is not proficient in English.
Riversaint
- 2008-01-24
Bartonfink: Keep up the vigilance. I am shocked at the poor level of English on this site.
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2008-01-24
[Quote] American's, and Brit's Are the ones that tend to break the law, in 80%-85% the cases where Children are involved. So a person has to ask? Will they give their child the chance to learn English from a perverted American or a non-perverted Fillopino. [Unquote]
Where on earth do you get your figures from? Are you talking about those convicted of sexually molesting children? Those CHARGED with paedophilia? Even if it was true that 85% of those convicted of paedophilia were Brits and Americans, it may only prove that in Asian countries, paedophilia is tolerated more and often swept under the carpet. It wouldn't in itself prove that child sex abuse was proportionally a less frequent occurence in Asia. I've lived in Asia for five years, and haven't seen anything that suggests that Asian children are any less in danger of suffering sexual abuse from their Asian parents, and Asian teachers etc. than children in Britain or America are (In fact with the often slightly anarchic implementation of the law here, it could well be the reverse).
pinayinchina
- 2008-01-24
I would like to apologize also if I have offended
you Bartonfink. I am also not perfect but in a forum
like this, some people will really make mistakes in
grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. because this is
not a formal writing so they don't pay attention.
So, if someone here is so critical and judgemental,
I don't agree with them that's why in a way I'm on the
side of Geoffrey. But actually, I am very fair.
I'm always on the side of who is right.
I'm hurt with the bad comments about Filipinos because
I'm very patriotic to my country and I love my fellow
coutrymen.
And it is true that not all Filipino ESL teachers in China
are excellent in English but we are trying our best
to do our job. Just like me but I think I'm a good
teacher because I'm very conscientious and taught a
lot of things to my students. My degree is Business
Management and I'm teaching Business English so
I think I taught them not only English but many aspects
in Business. So, if people will say Filipinos are not
qualified to teach English because we are non-native
speakers, I would really be offended because it's not
true. We maybe not considered native speakers but
English is one of our official languages too.
We start studying English since we are 5 years old
and all our subjects are in English except our
National language. When I went to college all of my
subjects are in English so I think we can be
considered as close to native speakers.
As I said, I never encountered a Chinese or other
Foreign teachers underestimating/discriminating my
capability in person. So, I'm happy that they respect
my capability and my nationality.
Sad to say in this ESL Forum some people are racist
and very judgemental. I hope this forum will change and
become a place for ESL teachers to discuss useful things.
I hope we will all be friends.
GOD BLESS TO ALL OF US...
bartonfink
- 2008-01-23
I have never claimed to be perfect and am quite aware that I have made many mistakes myself in this thread. The difference is that I don't take umbrage with anyone who points out my imperfections. I respect your right to tell me when I am wrong, and you should afford me the same courtesy.
So please, feel free to say anything you want about me or my comments. I promise I won't make childish remarks and call you "annoying", "pathetic", or "a fugitive".
bartonfink
- 2008-01-23
Pinayinchina, I don't need praise nor do I crave for the approval of others. I have never said I am perfect. I am quite aware I make many mistakes as well. The difference is that I can take criticism and even welcome it as a way to improve myself. I don't resort to making petty comments or hurl insults at others who point out my own errors.
I am sorry that my comments have offended you, but at the same time I don't fully understand why you would be so hurt by them. Are you the one who considers herself to be so "perfect" that you find it so outrageous that someone would dare say that you were wrong? In your other post, you admitted yourself that your previous comment was full of errors. That was very gracious on your part and for that you have my respect.
But please, do not generalize and say that all Filipino ESL teachers are great at their jobs. Like any other race or nationality, I'm sure there are good ones as well as bad ones.
I am puzzled though, why you would defend someone like Geoffrey. He has been tooting his own horn about his position and his Master's Degree, yet it must be so glaringly obvious to everyone that he does not even possess a high school level of English. Instead of addressing the issues I raised, all he has done is make childish comments (unlike yourself who has conducted yourself with more class and dignity than Geoffrey will ever have).
He embarrasses me not only because he is an educator (and a high-ranking one at that) but especially because he is Filipino. It bothers me that other people may think that Geoffrey is representative of all Filipino ESL teachers. It bothers me that other people may think that even a Filipino with such high credentials, such as himself, still lacks the ability to speak English competently. As a Filipino, it should bother you too. He is a disgrace to this profession and to all Filipinos.
pinayinchina
- 2008-01-23
Bartonfink, I wonder if your students like you
and have told you that you are a great teacher.
It seems that you are trying to say you are "PERFECT".
Actually, only here on the web that I saw people
criticizing Filipinos or other non-native speakers.
I've been teaching in China for more than 2 years and
I never encountered any Chinese or other
Foreign teachers discriminating and underestimating
my capability.
Maybe this discrimination only happens in private schools.
I hope these people who are constantly criticizing
non-native English speakers are really wonderful teachers
and are very effective in their job as an English teacher.
PEACE!!!!
Barbara
- 2008-01-23
Just leave them alone... Live your life!
Where in fact, you are as well committing some mistakes and everyone is... The only thing that is perfect is the word PERFECT!!! Your comments are so annoying.
bartonfink
- 2008-01-23
Judging from your emotional responses, I have obviously struck a nerve with you. I am only interested in having an intellectual discussion and have no desire whatsoever to argue on an emotional level and resort to making petty remarks at each other.
Lets use facts here. These are your words, not mine:
"LET US HELP PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DEVELOP THEIR ENGLISH SPEAKING SKILLS...UNLESS YOU ONLY CARE FOR WHAT YOU WILL EARN"
But then in another posting you imply that your salary proves your qualifications:
"Im still the principal above all the foreign teachers, the school is earning and I am very well compensated"
This only goes to show that you are one of those who "only care for what you will earn".
Then you say:
"NO MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE..."ALL HAVE COME SHORT IN THE GLORY OF GOD""
But then you resort to making false accusations with no proof whatsoever:
"My opinion...maybe youre a fugitive thats why you are here in China!"
Are you so perfect that you cannot take some criticism? Are you excempt from your own statement that "All have come short..."?
Now regarding your qualifications as an educator, this board may not be the proper forum to discuss your ineptitude, but I have some free time right now so, if you like, I can point out each and every one of your mistakes. Please let me know.
noypilurker
- 2008-01-23
I'm sorry Geoffrey but you really are doing more harm than good here...
Grammatical and whatnot errors aside, overall it's the way you respond to people that's putting me off.
You say that you are a principal of a school and handle many subordinates, but you have the netiquette of a twelve year old boy needing ADD medication.
Seriously, a Filipino TV addict watching sitcoms from Seinfeld to The Family Guy may have a better command of the language from what I see in your posts....
Geoffrey
- 2008-01-23
Oh thanks bartofink try to check yours... huh? look who's talking?! hahahahaha.... you are a waste of time kiddo! so pathetic.... 
Geoffrey
- 2008-01-23
BARTOFINK!!!I doubt your credibility as an educator... My opinion...maybe youre a fugitive thats why you are here in China! POOR YOU! hahahaha...goodluck to us all may you rest in peace! 
Just wanna share something
- 2008-01-23
To Whom It May Concern: F.Y.I.
We will only hire teachers with fluent oral English. We are looking for professional teachers only. Teachers from the Philippines are most welcome.
bartonfink
- 2008-01-23
Great. You throw insults at my direction instead of addressing your apparent lack of grammar, spelling and punctuation. Considering that you are a Principal, you should be holding yourself to a higher standard of conduct and setting a better example for Filipino ESL teachers instead of making petty insults.
I'm glad to hear that you are making money, but isn't that kind of the point of this discussion: that many ESL schools are all about making money and that the quality of instruction and instructors comes second. Thank you for proving my point yet again.
closure
- 2008-01-23
Re: DISCRIMINATION in Teaching English Language -
By:C'mon Get a life. <garethmostert1@163.com>
Date: 22 November 2007
In Response To: Re: DISCRIMINATION in Teaching English Language - Teachers Discussion (Australiaman)
Now there is one question that makes a person wonder.
Who cares how many mistakes there are, but what was the point of his posting???
Yes, Yanks and Red Coats do get more money to teach english in Asian countries than other natives of the English language, and guess what?
American's, and Brit's Are the ones that tend to break the law, in 80%-85% the cases where Children are involved. So a person has to ask? Will they give their child the chance to learn English from a perverted American or a non-perverted Fillopino.
I would choose the non-native Fillopino.
Geoffrey
- 2008-01-23
Talk to my hand bartonfink!
Geoffrey
- 2008-01-23
Bartonfink, I dont think you are educated...people like you do not belong in the teaching world......Whatever!!!!! 
Im still the principal above all the foreign teachers, the school is earning and I am very well compensated.... Im so sorry for people like you.....
Jeffery
- 2008-01-22
Your great callmefred!!! 
Please give me some more!!!
bartonfink
- 2008-01-22
Oh boy you kinda just shot yourself in the foot with that reply. To make matters worse you claim to be the Principal of an educational institution. The obvious grammar and spelling mistakes in your statement clearly shows you are unqualified to teach English.
If you are going to stand up for Filipinos, please try to do it properly in order to avoid embarrassing not only yourself, but an entire country as well.
callmefred
- 2008-01-22
Quote: I for one is from Africa, Unquote:
Is you really ?, and teaching English ?.
Something about ' the bottom of the barrel' comes to mind.
Geoffrey
- 2008-01-22
Just an input: My colleague used to work in an international school here in China, and yes its true, white skinned people (not even native speakers or claims to be one)were only used by the school as a front to the parents but most of the workloads were given to the Filipnos.
If you haven't been or lived in the Philippines for at least 5 years you wouldnt understand how the system works in the country. hahahah. so facts and figures are and were based on the news, hearsays and stories.
Admittedly, many schools in the Philippines does not have any good educational system but there are also some with high standards. May it be low or high in standards, the medium of instructions are basically in English. International information are given to the students.
In some aspects the educational system may not be at par with the universities in other countries, but Filipinos are highly exposed to the English language. Check the newspapers, magazines, TV news, Traffic directions, Government instructions, court hearings, music, etc. etc. etc., ride a cab easy for you to find your way to mc donalds...
If you have close encounters with Filipinos (especially the genuine well bred, highly educated Filipinos), you'll be surprised that most are exposed to international manners, politeness, hardworking and adaptable to their environment.
A close friend and a classmate in UT who happens to be half Filipino half Hungarian once told me that in Hungary 90% (correct me if I am wrong) of the medium of instructions used in Hungary is Hungarian.....I met a Hungarian just a few weeks ago and admitted that, that fact is true. He is presently a teacher in Beijing and the funny thing is that during the course of our time together he would often ask me english words and terms that he cannot express.
Yes, Most Chinese prefers "WHITE SKINNED" its a fact, but workwise many still prefer Filipnos because of their hardwork, enthusiasm, friendliness, and not into racism and ostracism. Filipinos may not have the British accent but they are capable to teach. I myself can attest to that because I am presntly the Principal of the Foreign Instructors Department in a well known school here in Shanghai for 5 years in a row.
I have nothing against white skinned or native speakers for I myself have cousins and relatives who happens to be Americans, French, Germans and Polish. It's the 21st century people! anybody can rule, can be rich, can be a failure or succesful. Anything is possible these days....
NO MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE..."ALL HAVE COME SHORT IN THE GLORY OF GOD"...STOP BEING RACIST OR OSTRACIST. WE ARE ALL EDUCATORS, TEACHERS, PROFESSORS...LETS STOP FUSSING ABOUT THIS THINGS AND JUST DO OUR JOB AS A TEACHER, BE PROFESSIONAL. LET US HELP PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DEVELOP THEIR ENGLISH SPEAKING SKILLS...UNLESS YOU ONLY CARE FOR WHAT YOU WILL EARN ....THAT IS ANOTHER STORY. I REST MY CASE
Edward.
- 2008-01-21
Choatle,
Fank maybe quite right, though questionable. We dont see any ad's looking for teachers from non native speakers, but when you look at the number of Africans for instance teaching English in China who will come back to frank's claim.I for one is from Africa, and have been teaching here in China since 2000. They keep talking this their native speakers story everytime,yet I have never been jobless for a single month.
The truth is that Chinese are Chinese, and they will remain chinese for a couple of years yet.