callmefred
- 2008-02-24
You said:
I'VE BEEN TEACHING FOR MORE THAN 20 years.
and I have been learning since you were begging your father to take you to JollyBee. Neither of the two statements mean much without evidence of progress. I see none in your rhetoric.
I don't know whom to feel sorrier for, you or the students.
Still as you have previously stated, you are a businesswoman and in education for the money. I hope you make a bundle.
Good day to you.
viva
- 2008-02-24
to callmefred:
i just want to end this interesting discussion with you by asking how long have you been teaching? if less than 5 years...you still have so much to learn...10 years, perhaps you have already learne
d some...15 years? then i'm inviting you to sit in my
class!!! i'm teaching the graduate students.
I'VE BEEN TEACHING FOR MORE THAN 20 years.
You know what? i also wish i were a better writer...you could have appreciated me a little hahaha. of course, i myself am laughing
when i read my mistakes but don't take those against my teaching ability
that would be unfair for me.
IT's time for me to work.
callmefred
- 2008-02-24
Viva, Just to clarify for your benefit, you said:
HONESTLY i learned and spoke YOUR english
I replied "you've been conned because you haven't"
meaning you haven't learned and you don't speak (or at least write) my English.
For your information, I have never criticised the English used by a learner of the language here or anywhere else, only the standard of English used by those who claim to be qualified to teach said language, both native and non-native who post on this forum.
If you read my previous post again you will glean from it that I am a teacher of teachers, not as you surmise one who teaches primary pupils, so I can do without lectures from you on effectiveness in teaching.
What I do see in all of your posts so far is a distinct prejudice against native speakers of the Queens English (nothing homophobic there I hope), and that somehow Fillipinos are thought of as second class. Hence my previous advice to take that 'chip off your shoulder'.
However you continue to miss my main point which is that to be taken seriously as having the ability to teach a subject, first demonstrate that you know your subject and don't indulge in the incredibly sloppy, badly written and sometimes illiterate mode of English that you have displayed. Smarten up girl.
Just out of interest, I showed one of your efforts to a Chinese English teacher (remember the original title of this thread ?), her question after reading it was "In which Junior Middle School year is this student "?.
There is a lesson there somewhere for you to ponder.
viva
- 2008-02-24
callmefred:
"you are conned because you haven't"
by "haven't" i don't know HOW MUCH you mean by that,i won't argue with y
about that anyway,not my cup of tea.
as to your caliber of being a teacher, i won't argue with that also... it's you opinion about yourself... i just hope your students SPEAK about it.
as to my caliber...MY STUDENTS ARE SPEAKING ABOUT IT.
as to the REFUND... sorry to tell you but nobody ever demanded one, on the contrary, they keep on paying more... and parents keep on insisting for me to take their children in( that's in my training center) and the university REQUESTED me to teach there as long as
i'm in China.
You are surprised? Not me. As I have told you in all my missives here... i'm confident about my ablilities and it takes more to be an effective teacher than a perfect english and i'm sure i have the better qualities...the students know who is the better teacher.
you have said that your students loves to learn under a capable teacher.
There I AGREE with you. But who do you think is a CAPABLE teacher?
I won't believe you if you will tell me that never once did a student come to you pouring his heart over his difficulties in learning, not because he is DUMB but because of his being Chinese. What did you do?
The greater part of our job as an ESL teacher...i repeat ESL(it means the students learn a language other than theirs) is to MOTIVATE the students to learn that second language. Since my stay in China, I have
taught ALL levels of students (i wonder if you had) as a
result of this vast experience I conclude that most of them hate the language and are only forced to learn it for the reasons that i have said in my other post. The attitudes of students towards the language varies as they grow older. I presume that you are teaching primary students... there you would note that the students seem to love learning it...but take it from...and i'm sure of this...once these students step to college, their attitude changes...english becomes a BURDEN to most of them...this is where your EXPERTISE as an ESL teacher comes into play...not your expertise in the language itself.
and have you heard of "SIMPLIFYING YOUR SPEECH"? okey, this is what we call the "foreigner talk", a simplified register or style of speech. All the NS here had been bragging about their PERFECT english and had been flaunting "BIG" words in their missives... well....it doesn't work in the clssroom though. because in the classroom you have to simplify the language to your estimate of the students level of comprehension. You always should try to make the language comprehensible to the students...failing to do so will cause anxiety or frustration to the students and eventually they would lose their interest.
i'm citing this because of your constant criticisms about us NNS FTs who you think are way below your standard. I agree that you are much better in SPEAKING than us (that's expected of you), but again, it doesn't necessarily follow that you are much better in TEACHING than us.
We do TALK in the classroom just like NS FTs do, but there should always ne a function that our TALK serve. It should be PRODUCTIVE, because of this, when we are inside the classroom, we see to it that our lessons are well prepared, as perfect as possible(we have reference books hahahah), we are careful of everything that comes out of our mouth and what comes out of the mouths of the students. I WISH the NS FTs were also aware of this. We have just fired an NS FT... why? because he can speak english VERY WELL, he was never aware of what are COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH (you know what these are)...and this is one of the big disappointments about many NS.
I could give you a lecture on "HOW TO BE AN EFFECTIVE ESL TEACHER", i've just finished giving a 10-day lecture to my colleagues here, but i'm sure you won't learn from me... why? YOU ARE HIGH STRUNG...one negative attitude of many NS...you always think you are the best because you are NSs.
but this i may say, "NOT ALL THE TIME"
i also stand corrected on imperfections on spellings, grammar etc etc... i leave these for you to correct hahahaha..i haven't so much time to proofread.
only forc
callmefred
- 2008-02-23
So Viva:
HONESTLY i learned and spoke YOUR english just for the money...
Viva, you've been conned because you haven't.
and being a businesswoman
Now I begin to see.
Viva my little sugar cube, is it asking too much that teachers of a subject should have a decent grasp of what they teach, be it languages, mathematics or even carpentry.?
Of course I don't expect students to attain a perfect level English, unless they are extrordinarily gifted or spend damn near a lifetime to achieve the level of proficiency that native speakers take for granted.
The level of grammar, spelling, sentence structure, syntax etc. exhibited by your good self in your many missives here have been appalling. If I sent my child to a school where the English teacher used your brand of sloppiness, I should demand a refund.
In my native Hampshire home we have a saying;
'andsome is, as 'andsome does'.
You 'aint and you don't,
Many students with whom I come into contact do like English very much when taught by enlightened teachers and, being a teacher of teachers, I try my best to instill this concept.
Draw your own conclusions.
viva
- 2008-02-23
to camelfred:
..don't dwell so much on this "PERFECTION" issue...you see, the Chinese students hate YOUR english as much as I DO. HONESTLY i learned and spoke YOUR english just for the money...i'm no hypocrite, it's one of the best and easy business here in china today...from books to language centers.. everything about english...and the english speaking people are really making so much money out of these.
but of course, being a teacher i also do what i'm paid for and being a businesswoman i see to it that i deliver the right services to the clients.
why did i say that the chinese students hate YOUR english... in a class of 30, try to raise the question "do you like english?"... about 2 to 5 will say YES and the others would just say..."just for the exams...have to learn it NO CHOICE". They hate to think that their future choice of a university or a degree is greatly affected with the results of the English profficiency exams... and that their chances of landing a good job in the future is also greatly affected with this "English" issue...
THEY DON"T LOVE IT.
callmefred
- 2008-02-23
You said:
.you've been bragging about your good command of the language...
Have I ?. Well if your idea of bragging is the correct usage of the lingua franca in this forum, then I plead guilty as charged.
However, should I descend into the realms of sloppiness that you and some others using this forum exhibit (they know who they are), whilst professing to be teachers of English, both native and non-native, I am sure you will be amongst the first to point it out.
If you teach to the same standard of English that you demonstrate in your posts, may I say that 'the blind leading the blind' was never a good idea.
viva
- 2008-02-23
okey, maybe i should...everything is taking so much of my time actually.. and i don't have any intention to please anybody,with my english,i'm confident of my capabilties and i'm highly paid for it.
i only happened to browse on this forum as the secretary told me that there may be possible QUALIFIED FTs visiting this forum(when i say qualified i mean everyhting it takes to be an effective teacher,there is more to speaking perfect english to be one)
the university just fired an NS FT (by now i think you know why) and we need a replacement on time for the opening of the next term...
hohumm... you might consider applying... you might be qualified...you've been bragging about your good command of the language...but sorry to tell you that I was tasked to do the procedures.
anybody interested may post their e-mail address here then i'll try to connect with you for further details.
and oh i forgot to tell you callmefred, i founded a Language training center with a Chinese friend...we have more than 500 students and so we also hired 2 FTs, i didn't violate my contract cause i
get a GOODWILL pay...suffice to say that it doesn't only take a PERFECT english to be successful in this English language business here in China...i'll tell you more when we'll have the chance to see each other.. i'm waiting for you.
have a good time!!!
callmefred
- 2008-02-22
"..then what do these moronic idotic white skinned blue eyed
blond haired doing here for?"
Read again what I said about YOUR English Viva, as it shows no improvement.
As to your question about generalisations:
In the way that you phrased the statement about "moronic idiotic white skinned blue eyed blond haired" etc. you implied that Caucasions are as such because of these attributes, which is a generalisation.
Take the chip off of your shoulder Viva, and stop with the battology, it's beginning to bore.
viva
- 2008-02-21
callmefred:
read again: "..then what do these moronic idotic white skinned blue eyed
blond haired doing here for?" ...is there generalisation on this statement?...and the mere fact that you are asking me if i also feel that way to you because you are" white skinned...." already refutes your statement that i was generalising when i said that
... why? because you still aren't sure that it's intended for
you....enough to say that i didn't generalize...it was
intended for those who really ARE in particular. it's as clear as the blue sky!!!
and do you want me to tell you why i called them moronic and idiotic?...don't be a hypocrite you know these kinds and there are many here...and they are the the real ones causing embarassment to the profession...not those NNS or Filipinos in particular who have some imperfections in the language.
i didn't say .." then what do ALL these blue eyed white skinned blond
haired... WHO ARE ALL IDIOTIC AND MORONIC doing here for?
i think it's so plain and simple....oh and i almost
admired you for being "white skinned......" and supposed to be perfect in english.
and as to your statement " not near the standard expected ofan esl teacher.." ...i beg to disagree...i would repeat and calling them such until there are some of their kinds here...they only
deserve it...and even if somebody in this forum would call me a racist again ...i would insist to tell them to "go back where they came from". RACIST(???)
JNET
- 2008-02-13
Hey Viva,
Calm down!!!!
Relax.
It's okay to confute but to become bellicose, that's another
thing.
BTW, thank you for the compliments on us, Filipinos.
Nice day!
callmefred
- 2008-02-13
then what are these idiotic moronic blue eyed blond haired white skinned doing here to???
Viva, I have white skin, green eyes and brown hair. Do you feel the same about me?. Am I "idiotic and moronic"?
Actually, I couldn't give a rodents rectum what you think, but if your English was anywhere near the standard expected of an ESL teacher, I may have more sympathy with the point of view that you expound.
Sensible people do not generalise in the denigration of any group by ethnicity, eye, skin or hair colour, neither should you.
viva
- 2008-02-13
i found errors (inadvertent) in my post... i think it better to correct it myself rather than being corrected by this self assuming, self-professed language genius in this forum (bartonfik)...
heyy man, you really succeeded in insulting and embarrassing some of the posters here (suckkss)...you aren't aware that you are showing ignorance in what we call "error treatment"...go to school
man!!!
should be: "..what are these ....doing here for?"
should be: "..qualified enough to teach...."
...if there are some more mistakes then i leave it to you mr. genius...you REJOICE!!! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???
you induced an uproar because of your irresponsible acts... this is a forum... the posters are not in the examination room...you gave unsolicited advise and comments on their grammar which is not the point of discussion...
okey, you must be excellent, but you are not in any authority to correct the mistakes of others if you were not asked to do so. if you are a teacher then do this to your students...there you have the right. and if you are that excellent ... go back to where you came from!!!
viva
- 2008-02-12
c'mon ...if only these filipinos are coming to work here in chinaor anywhere else in the world for the pay...then what are these idiotic moronic blue eyed blond haired white skinned doing here to??? Most of them can't even distinguish the differences between the the simple and the perfect tenses...
So much is said about the plight of the filipinos... but aren't these show of courage and diligence enough to prove how emotionally and psychologically stable they are??? more than enough to be qualified to be teach this borrowed language aside from being highly educated and lacking in arrogance often displayed by the NS counterpart.
Leave them alone ... or are you just threatened???