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#1 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2008-05-23
Look Who's Talking!

Shirley, you wrote:-

"Pronounciation - Why don't teachers correct black kids when the pronounce words wrong?"

My reply:-

When the "What?" pronounces wrong, and what does that have to do with black kids?

Why don't people correct you, when you write a post on a public forum that's full of poor grammar, while criticizing other people's poor use of the English language?

You wrote:-

"So don't feel sorry for yourself and get busy and learn!"

My reply:-

Nobody's perfect, but it seems like you make no greater an effort to write well, than those who you criticize, make in speaking well. It's time that YOU got busy!

As another poster mentioned: ironic isn't it?

Physician, heal yourself!

You wrote:-

"This is not a matter of ebonics it is a matter of correct speech and is demanded of white students as well."

My reply:-

Well set the example, then. When you've managed to learn English, yourself, then maybe you can have the honour of teaching the "black kids" how to speak.

You wrote,

"We have enough problem with non-english speaking people. There is no excuse for people who live here not to pronounce words correctly."

My reply:-

There would also be even less excuse for one who's put themself on a pedestal, like you have, to write so poorly.

You wrote:-

"You may only know a few but these few need to be pronounced correctly. I wouldn't hire anyone that couldn't speak correctly."

My reply:-

I deduce from the above that you wouldn't employ anyone like yourself then?

I think EVERYONE would be RELIEVED that you wouldn't hire them, full stop. Who in their right mind would want to work with somone as bigoted as you?

I know a few "black kids" in London who would be happy to help you to improve your English writing.

#2 Parent James McAllister - 2008-05-22
CorrectionRe: Pronounciation - Why don't teachers correct black kids when the pronounce words wrong?

Sorry, I meant to say, "handed down from teachers to pupils," not, "handed down from students to pupils."

#3 Parent James McAllister - 2008-05-22
Re: Pronounciation - Why don't teachers correct black kids when the pronounce words wrong?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I can't agree with you fully. And, as a phonetics teacher, I don't say this lightly. I think it's unfortunate that the quality of education in America is such that not all children have the opportunity to be taught correctly. Habitually incorrect speech patterns are handed down from students to pupils, and, of course, from parents to their children; however, it will take a few more generations before we can expect the errors that you mentioned to fall by the wayside.
Now, on another note, the same can be said about writing skills. The college from which I graduated, a well known Liberal Arts College, has a drop out rate of 25% in the first year due to the fact that Freshmen students are not properly prepared in high school to meet the writing demands of college. I would go so far as to posit that exceptional or even adequate writers are in shorter supply than effective speakers. For example, though you seem quite capable of expressing yourself, it must be noted that you have misspelled pronunciation - the very thing that your post is about. A very common error, but rather ironic don't you think? However, my point is that most educators are overwhelmed by the broader task of teaching "adequacy" versus excellence. Excellence is closely tied to motivation of the learner. Environmental factors, such as parental guidance and encouragement, play an important role as well.

So, I think your argument, though interesting, is too narrowly confined to certain speech affectations rather than the broader question of inadequate education at the primary and secondary levels.

Note: To pronounce is the infinitive. Pronunciation is the noun that you should have used. Moreover, you need to educate yourself in the proper use of punctuation - especially where conditional clauses are used. There are some excellent websites that you could consult, such as http://owl.english.purdue.edu/. Good luck!

shirley boorsma - 2008-05-20
Pronounciation - Why don't teachers correct black kids when the pronounce words wrong?

It has been going on too long for strength to be said as strenth or as ask to be said as ax.

I know it is because they have parents or grand parents or people who care for them that say this.

There are words such as looked that are said as lookeded and loved as loveded.

Are the teachers afraid to say anything to these students. The teacher should tell the class at the beginning of the year she is going to correct any word that is pronounced wrong. If that offends any parents well get over it!

How do these parents think there is a better life for their kids if they can't speak correctly?

This is not a matter of ebonics it is a matter of correct speech and is demanded of white students as well.

If you can't pronounce words then you can't spell words.

We have enough problem with non-english speaking people. There is no excuse for people who live here not to pronounce words correctly. You may only know a few but these few need to be pronounced correctly. I wouldn't hire anyone that couldn't speak correctly. So don't feel sorry for yourself and get busy and learn!

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