TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
Return to Index › Re: NEWBIES BEWARE! Pack of pitbulls, snakes in the grass
#1 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2008-07-17
Re: The "Serpico" Syndrome

Thanks, Riddlemethis,

That was an interesting point you brought up about students doing better at English if they are learning in order to communicate with foreigners. When students tell me that they study English in order to communicate with foreigners, I'm often a bit sceptical and think that they're just giving superficial, party line answers. If that survey is true then I need to have a rethink. Thanks for sharing that. You're exposing the cynic in me. Those who tell me that they're studying because they want to COMMUNICATE with English-speaking foreigners in a WORK environment, usually impress me the most.

I hope everything works out for you in your new assignment. I sent you an e-mail today. I hope you're still using that address.

Yingwen

#2 Parent riddlemethis - 2008-07-15
Re: The "Serpico" Syndrome

Excellent post Yingwen; in fact, well worth saving for future publication. Interestingly, I've discussed many of the points that you addressed with some of my brighter students. Especially the exam mentality.

A while back, I read an interesting article written by a teacher in China who had done a survey of successful English language students and not so successful ones. She was prompted to do so because of the question we've all been asked a thousand times: "Teacher, how can I improve my spoken English?"

The results of her survey were quite interesting in that they clearly pointed to the fact that those who stated their reasons for studying English as more associated with their need to get a good job, good marks etc. were the ones who faired the worst. While those students who had more communicative goals were the ones who faired the best - even those who weren't English Majors. Those who did well spoke of their desire to communicate well with foreigners or to make foreign friends and that sort of thing. To us this seems quite logical, but you're so right in noting that the exam mentality is a huge hindrance to progress.

Well, I'm busy packing and must catch a plane early tomorrow morning. Some of my students are seeing me off at the airport - the Chinese tradition of seeing the friend off as far as possible, and, amazingly, the university is paying the taxi fare for them to do so. It's a little difficult for me to say goodbye to this place. I've had some great students who have meant so much to me and that I know will be my friends forever. Time to say goodbye though; albeit, a little reluctantly.

I'll catch up with you another time. Again, awesome post.......................

#3 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2008-07-15
The "Serpico" Syndrome

Hi, "Riddlemethis". I prefer to use one of your other pseudonyms if that's ok. "Whocares" sounds a bit too awkward. Anyway, it's good to hear from you personally. I always get something positive from your posts. Your latest one was particularly stimulating and encouraging. Thanks for the positive sentiments.

You're correct. I think we agree on most things except the question of the degree of blame that should be attached to foreign teachers as regards the predicament of EFL teaching in China. I was suprised to find that you thought of me as more balanced than yourself. I actually believe it's the other way around. I find that you are much more patient and understanding of the education system in China, and you consider the environmental effects a lot more, while I am much more scathing of those in charge of education here. I guess I've always hated bullys, and cheats who abuse their positions and exploit those who they have been intrusted with helping. I believe that the leaders of Chinese education are much more guilty of this than some of our fellow FTs are. At the risk of being accused of flogging a dead horse, allow me to explain why I believe this.

By far, the greater percentage of English teaching in China is NOT carried out by foreign teachers (FTs), but by local Chinese teachers. You mentioned a student who missed some Chinese teachers (CTs) of English who made his learning enjoyable. I don't deny that there are excellent, creative, and imaginative CTs out there, but they are often drowned in a sea of burnt-out teachers who usually, because of the difficult conditions that they teach under, are not able to fulfill their promise. I think that it can't be argued that CTs are generally overworked and burdened with too many extra duties that take away from them being able to produce good, stimulating lessons that would be of real benefit to their students. Yes, there are a lot of FTs in the private sector who couldn't give a rat's backside about their students, but even most of these are only taking their cue from the ruthless, cut-throat leaders of the schools that they work for. Those leaders often care about nothing but lining their own pockets. By far most of the FTs that I have met in the public schools that I have worked in over the last five years, have been serious, committed, and hard-working people who have tried their best to help their students. What I've noticed in China is that many foreign teachers take their cue from their employer, albeit, to often differing degrees. Surely the leaders of schools in China should be setting a good example. Unfortunately, that good example is often markedly absent.

There are four fundamental problems that I believe are causing Chinese students to often miss the mark by a mile when it comes to really acquiring the language of English in the sense of them being able to use it as a proper means of communication.

1. There is way too much emphasis on passing exams.

In fact Chinese students always seem to be preparing for one exam or another. They seem to have too many exams to deal with. From their early childhood, the vast majority of Chinese children are taught that nothing matters except passing that "dreaded " college entrance exam (CEE). Real education is not important, nor is real learning. They just need to do whatever is needed to pass the next exam. Whenever I have an open discussion with my students about any changes that they would like to see in Chinese education, this is nearly always the first issue that comes up. They are absolutely weighed down and burdened with having to remember, VERBATIM, a lot of useless claptrap that for the most part adds nothing to their practical knowledge, ability, or emotional and mental development. In fact it often does the opposite, by turning them into unthinking automatons who are unable to think critically about things. From this fundamental problem, stems the three other main causes of their impeded progress.

2. Chinese students do not generally practice using the target language outside of the classroom, enough.

This is related to the first problem. Most students are so drained out with rote-learning and practice for exams, which they are taught is the whole purpose of learning, that real practice of the language is put on the back burner. Acquirement of a foreign language cannot come about without constant usage, practice and interaction with fellow English learners. Over the years most of my students have readily admitted that they don't practice anywhere near as often as they should, if at all.

3. Students generally use too much Chinese in their learning of English.

Again this problem is related to the fundamental problem of too much emphasis on exams. Chinese teachers use the short cut of translation methods of teaching primarily to facilitate students in passing their exams. Remember, exam passing is the main objective in most Chinese schools, so the end justifies the means. It doesn't matter whether Chinese students actually learn how to communicate in English; rather, all they need to do is remember enough to pass the exam. As far as China is concerned, if teaching them by use of Chinese can help them with this objective, then all is well and good. Another reason why the translation method is used, is because overburdened CTs do not generally have the time and energy required to put in the extra work and thought needed to prepare relevant and meaningful, communicative approach based lessons.

4. There is rampant cheating before, during, and after exams in China.

Because of the huge responsibility and burden that the average Chinese student has to carry, I almost can't blame them for often cheating (not that I tolerate it, mind you). Failing is not an option for a Chinese student. They have to pass exams and obtain degrees. Without such, life in a country with a population of 1.3 billion could become a hell on earth. Many students bribe teachers before and after exams to make sure that they pass, or get the desired mark. Although there have been moves to curb cheating by some of those in authority, in many parts of China, cheating is still the accepted norm; in fact it's woven into the fabric of Chinese society. Because of this cheating, many students are not benefiting from the REAL purpose of exams; an evaluation of their learning needs, and a guide for others, of their proven ability.

Add to those four basic problems above, the fact that Chinese teachers are generally too burdened and over-worked to function well and you have the recipe for Chinese students often failing to be able to function well in an English environment after many years of "learning" English. Yes, FTs who come to China to just party and play without making any effort to really teach their students, don't help the situation. However, as mentioned above, the fundamental problems plaguing EFL in China have little if anything to do with FTs.

A couple of weeks ago, i watched a 1973 movie titled "Serpico" which was based on the true story of a policeman in New York who found himself surrounded by police corruption. It effected him so badly, that he couldn't carry out the true function of his job. After speaking out against it, he soon soon realized that the problem went much deeper than a few bent officers on the street. To his horror, he realized that virtually the whole system was corrupt all the way up to the top. In the end he realized that the situation would never change until those in power were either sacked or changed their mindset; neither of which happened.

Look at the link below where Serpico points this fact out. Note particularly 37-39.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE0NTk5NjQ=.html

This is almost the same as what is happening in EFL in China. The sacking of unmotivated FTs who are offering nothing to their students, and the replacing of them by motivated, competent FTs, WILL NOT HAPPEN while the present leaders of Chinese education remain in power with their present MINDSET. It won't happen because they don't care enough about the students or their learning, to allow it to happen. Generally, they care more about their position, prestige, power and bank balances. Many of them probably feel threatened by real FTs who really care about their students, and who will stop at nothing to actually help them learn. The more good teachers that come to China to teach, the more exposed are the charlatans at the top. Those charlatans amongst the leaders of Chinese education are actually actively seeking PRETEND teachers, because pretend teachers are the ones that will listen to them , preserve the status quo, and help them keep their positions. In the same way the top brass hated REAL policeman like Serpico, because he exposed them and brought their corruption and greed to light.

If a decorator was asked to hang beautiful wallpaper over cracks in a wall he might be able to get away with it. However, if that wall was crumbling and falling to peices, it would not matter how expert the decorator was; nor would it matter how fine the quality of wallpaper was that he was trying to hang. The wall would simply be in no condition to take the wallpaper. It would be impossible to paper the wall at all. Likewise the wall of EFL in China is falling apart. At the moment, because of the present mindset exhibited by those in charge, it's impossible for the amount of real qualified, motivated FTs that are needed in China, to be able to even come here in the first place. Those in authority, generally DON'T WANT THEM TO COME. When they do come, many of them are met with so much opposition that they often prove ineffective at making any real change here.

Just like the police system that Serpico worked under, the system of education in China is rotten at it's core. A few street detectives being replaced would not have sorted out the fundamental problems in Serpico's case. Those in power needed to be eradicated or have their mindset changed. Likewise, the WHOLE apple needs to be thrown away in China, and be replaced by a healthy and wholesome one.

The problem at the college you are leaving is not really the fault of the FTs, but the leaders who are obviously not truly motivated enough to make the necessary changes. I know you wont give up, because youre not a quitter, and you have a positive attitude. Although I think you are too scathing of FTs, sometimes, I do admire your balanced view of China and its education system. I know that you have suffered as much as any other FT with schools that dont measure up to your expectations. The fact that you still remain upbeat and positive amidst all this, says a lot about your positive personal qualities. Im glad to hear that youre going to a place that youll enjoy. I wish you all the best in your new venture. Im sure that youve never felt that even one minute of your time has been wasted, whatever the attitude of those around you. As long as we focus on what matters the most; our students and our doing the best job we can possibly do with them, thats all that matters. If you want to contact me by e-mail, please use the hotmail one I gave you. Because I hardly used the yahoo one that I posted on this site (thats the reason why I posted it), I forgot the password.

All the best,

Yingwen.

#4 Parent whocares - 2008-07-13
Re: Let me finish that sentence......

I think that it's quite necessary for us to avoid generalities when we're discussing EFL teaching and learning in China; therefore, our imaginary conversations are rightfully laced with expressions such as "the great majority," and I do take note that you have avoided using sweeping generalities. Obviously, though, we have differing opinions regarding the degree to which FT's should shoulder the blame for not having had a more positive impact in terms of altering some of the more dismal realities we're addressing. Here's a conversation I had a few months ago in my office with a rather bright student at our college:

Me: Hey, Michael, come on in. Always nice to see you. How are things going.

Michael: Well, ok, I guess.

Me: Is something bothering you?

Michael: Yes, but I'm not sure I should talk about it.

Me: Don't worry Michael, you know that anything we talk about here is just between you and me.

Michael: Ok, well, yesterday I and a few of my classmates had a talk with the Dean about some of the things that bother us here.

Me: Hmm. I guess you were a little disappointed with that conversation, were'nt you?

Michael: Yes, we were. It seems he's not really interested in listening to our complaints.

Me: I'm not surprised. As you know, I'm not real happy with the Dean either, and that's one of the reasons I won't be coming back for a third year. At one time, he seemed capable of dealing with problems and even listened to advice from a few of the qualified teachers, but now it seems like he's lost interest. I think it's because this college has grown so fast and has hired so many new teachers, that he's in over his head. (Explanation of "over his head" provided to the student.)

Michael: I see, and yes that's the problem we wanted to talk to him about. Most of our new teachers don't seem like they know what they're doing, or don't seem to care about the students.

Me: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Lately, so many students have been coming to my office and asking me to correct their work because their teachers aren't really bothering to do so and they know that all the mistakes are not being found.

Michael: Yes, that's part of the problem, but the biggest problem is that they don't seem very interested in what they're doing and so the class is so boring.

Me: What do you wish they were doing differently?

Michael: Well, before I came to college I had some great English teachers.

Me: Foreign teachers?

Michael: No, Chinese teachers. They really made our English classes interesting. I learned so much more in Senior school than I have at this college. We all really like your class, but................

Me: Thanks Michael.

Michael: Well, I think you understand my meaning. Some of the teachers just talk and talk and we don't learn anything. We don't even get to use the language. Other teachers just flirt with the girls. Our writing teacher has never showed us his own writing; it's always just the boring passages from our boring text book.

Me: I understand, and I've tried to talk about these things to the Dean also. He just doesn't want to listen these days, so I don't know what to do about it.

Michael: Yes, we feel the same way. We're a little disappointed about paying so much money and not getting what we thought we would get.

Me: I'm sorry about that Michael. I wish I could offer you some advice, but I think that all you can do is try your best. Maybe you and your friends should form a study group and spend as much time as possible studying outside the classroom.

Michael: Ok, we'll try. Thank you teacher.

To be honest, this is actually downplaying the conversation. The disappointment of this student and many others at the college I just left is acute. Their awareness of the deficiencies of the teachers is just as acute. The problem in their minds is less about the big picture that you describe Yingwen - that of a system bogged down in the past, but more of one about a system that should, at the very least, be providing quality teachers.

We can make valid comparisons about the West and East having similar profit motivations, but in the West there is little toleration for unqualified teachers. I simply can't imagine a college in America, for example, offering Chinese language classes taught by someone who can't communicate well in Chinese or write well in Chinese and who hasn't a clue about how to conduct themselves in the classroom.

Again, yes the education system in China has some serious problems that seemingly aren't being addressed; however, the influx of pretend teachers is only exacerbating a situation that they actually are trying to fix. I've asked the question before and I'll ask it again: Why do foreigners who have absolutely zero teaching experience, zero training and zero interest in learning anything about teaching English as a Foreign Language continue showing up in droves knowing that they can scam their way into a classroom and make a decent enough wage in China to have a pretty nice lifestyle? Well, I guess the question is the answer. On the other hand, what makes them capable of complaining about the system when they are a big part of the problem?

You and I have been colleagues in the past Yingwen - quite awhile ago, now that I think about it. I'm sure that since then we've both observed a lot that we simply wish was not the case. Moreover, I know that you are as dedicated to your students as I am, and that you're always seeking ways to make your classes more meaningful for their sake. I also think that, like me, you probably go through varying degrees of frustration when dealing with this whole scene and that on some days we're both capable of putting it aside and just concentrating on the task at hand. I also note from reading most of your posts that you're a little more balanced than I in the way that you discuss EFL in China, as I tend to lean more toward the side of the students while you tend to look more at the big picture and choose to provide a broader perspective in this forum. I guess that after five years of this, I've found that most of my concern is for the students though. Perhaps I've had it up to here with the whiners and they don't bother you quite as much as they do me.

Yeah, I'm leaving this campus in a few days and moving on to my next assignment that should prove to be quite interesting. Back to the small town atmosphere for me - even smaller than where we taught together. This time, though, I'll be working for a private company where I'll be helping to prepare some of their employees for studies abroad. They're actually paying me a months salary for vacation time before I even begin, and paying all my vacation travel costs after I go there to get my visa renewed, and paying for my flight there and flight costs after the contract as per usual. They're doing all this because they've had problems in the past with young teachers and pretend teachers and want to keep me there as long as possible. I've talked extensively with the outgoing teacher - yep, only one, and that appeals to me also. Like where we were before, I'll be one of the few foreigners around. I'll be in a part of China that I've always considered quite fascinating, but haven't had the opportunity to go to prior to this. Well, I'm pretty excited about the change and so is my girl friend - yep, still together after four years. I'll send you an email after I get there and let you know how it's going.

Take care Yingwen!

#5 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2008-07-12
Re: Let me finish that sentence......

Well done. You finished that sentence well. I agree with most of it. However, you forgot the rest. "Listen" to further conversation below:

School Leader: ...bear in mind that the mindset that called for any FT that looked the part to come to China to teach, is the same mindset that is producing many Chinese teachers of English who are burnt-out before they even teach their first lesson.

Deputy: Why are they burnt out BEFORE?

School Leader: Because those teachers are the former students who were taught to mainly just cram for exams. In class they were taught to memorize texts, often filled with archaic words and phrases that they often didn't understand unless they were translated into Chinese. Many of them found no joy in learning English because of this, and by the time they graduated, many of them were bored of English or even hated it.

Deputy: I see. So what happens when they start teaching?

School leader: Well for the most part they are instructed by the leaders of education to teach with the same methods and objectives that their teachers used to teach them. So the cycle continues, and you end up with a huge amount of exhausted automatons teaching a huge amount of exhausted automatons.

Deputy: That's a bummer. Don't some of the Chinese teachers try to break this cycle, though?

School leader: Oh, yes. Like many of their students, many want to really make a difference, but they're generally not allowed to.

Deputy: Why's that?

School Leader: Because they're generally tied up (or down) with too much extra work. Chinese college/university teachers of English, for example, often have to study for further degrees, while teaching, in order to add prestige to the school. What they study, often has little or no practical value as regards their teaching.

Deputy: Ok. Anything else?

School Leader: Yes, they're also instructed to research in order to write articles that will be published in journals.

Deputy: Isn't that a good thing, though? I mean, that research can be used to enhance their teaching, can't it? Also, they will get paid for those articles and that will top up their salaries.

School Leader: No, the research they do and the articles they write consist mostly of gobbledegook that is purely designed to sound important, thus giving the impression that the school is employing a bunch of 'Einsteins'. As for getting paid for this; for the most part, the TEACHERS have to pay for the privilege of getting their 'relevant and meaningful' articles published.

Deputy: Whew! I'm really starting to see that BMW, now! You've got me believing.

School Leader: Porsche, man PORSCHE! Where's your ambition?

Deputy: Tell me more. Build up my faith.

School Leader: Well from what I have told you, can't you see that these students are not the product of pretend FTs? They are the product of a system that has for a long time been only concerned with muddling through, keeping up appearances, and giving their students the impression that they are getting something out of their education. The great majority of English teaching in China is carried out by CHINESE teachers of English, and you can see the end product yourself. If they can achieve all of the above while maximizing their profits, then everything is hunky dory.

Deputy: ...and everything will be hunky dory for us, too. Won't it?

School Leader: Ah! Now you're catching on. See, I didn't make you my deputy for nothing, did I?

Deputy: So you're saying that this mindset is deeply embedded in the minds of the leaders of the Chinese education system, while the pretend FTs are just the latest sympton of a disease that has been in existence for a long time.

School Leader: Yes! I'd better watch out. You might have my job soon.

Deputy: I can see the Porsche! I can see the Porsche! Bring 'em on, I'm ready!

School Leader: Hold on. Get in the queue!

#6 Parent whocares - 2008-07-12
Let me finish that sentence......

"Well, yes, there has been a frenzy for English learning in China; unfortunately, that demand has created a situation where pretend teachers are the rule rather than the exception. Therefore, the product sold does not equal the quality of the product offered. You know how it is. Any Tom, Dick, Harry or Jane can get a job teaching English in China. Meanwhile, the administrators of the schools, are well aware that Chinese teachers of English can often do just as good of a job, if not better, but hey, putting that native speaker in front of the class, usually a white face, generates more profit. How can they pass that up? What's more, China being an exam oriented culture, students have learned that x amount of cramming will enable them to pass the IELTS or the TOEFL and they show up on our shores unable to communicate even in the most rudimentary conversations. Meanwhile, we reap the profits and the schools there reap the profits. The money flows. That's what it's all about, right? Keepin' the money flowin'? Okay, here they are; just don't let them know that we know the deal. Don't worry, you'll get your cut too. Take a look down there at those stupid old rattle traps we're driving. Now imagine yourself behind the wheel of a beautiful Porsche. Yeah, we'll be stylin'?"

#7 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2008-07-11
Re: NEWBIES BEWARE! Pack of pitbulls, snakes in the grass

Corruption at Western institutions? Lowering of standards for Asian students? Asians, the most coveted customers? Chinese parents offering bribes to leaders of those institutions?

I'm not sure what your argument is here, but you're not doing much more than reinforcing the valid criticism of the Chinese education system. You don't seem to be able to join the dots. If educational standards were higher in China; for example, less obsession with profit over professionalism, less emphasis on the superficial, like obtaining degrees and passing exams, over obtaining knowledge, ability, and language skills, there would not be such a market generated for Western schools to exploit (This in no way excuses the cheating leaders in said Western schools).

Imagine the following conversation:

British school leader to his deputy:

"Here come the new students from China (rubs hands together). I'm going to make a killing from this lot."

Deputy Leader

"How's that, then?"

School leader

"Well, a great deal of them have such poor English and practical thinking skills, that when we tell the parents that they don't match the criteria to enrol here, they offer us healthy bribes. I'm going to be rolling in it (imagines himself behind the wheel of a spanking new Porsche)."

Deputy

"But I heard that there has been a frenzy for English learning in China over the last five years or so, and Chinese students are supposed to be amongst the highest level of academically trained students in the world. What are they teaching them over there?"

School Leader

"Well, ..."

Return to Index › Re: NEWBIES BEWARE! Pack of pitbulls, snakes in the grass





Go to another board -