my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Most countries require an Exit Visa. But so does Russia. Children can't leave without the father's signature.

I guess if you wanted to be rolled up in a carpet and shipped out with all the other excess baggage.....That could be done too.

Women can usually find work in International schools or at Universities teaching women. Of course you could also get a job as a private tutor for a Rich family. But then if you don't have sex with their teenage sons you could be there for the rest of your life as you would be unable to get an exit visa. It happens and there is nothing your government can do about it. It is safer to go with a Husband.

Of course you could say, "I'm an American or I'm a Brit and yak yak yak yak. Their reply may very well be to Cane you in the face and ask you where your abaya is to cover yourself up. Get to the back of the Bus. You are a Western woman and that makes you a prostitute so I will do with you what I want. If you are a teacher..... go with a Husband.

Raytheon/Salts is currently paying about $4300/Month. Add to that housing, medical and tickets and you have a good package. However, the students are extremely un and I stress UN-motivated. If you teach in Jeddah you are near the Desalinization plant which spews out Sulfur dioxide. That causes Lung infections so you may have a class of 13 students hacking germs in a very small classroom. Thus you get sick. I got a very deep dry cough and it took six weeks to get rid of it.

On the other side of the country, I worked for ARAMCO. Worst students I EVER had. In a class of about 18 students.. Well lets go from your left to your right..
The first three are having a conversation. The next three are also having a conversation. Then the next four are looking at Porn on their Cell phone. The next two or three are asleep. The rest are listening and working. They have been there for eight hours a day for two years and do not want to listen to anything you have to say. It does pay $5800 a month. The day before I left, they asked me if I wanted to stay and "Make some more MONEY" I turned them down and went to Russia for $600....

In Kuwait I had military students, I had students who said to me "What are these people going to do if we cause problems in class. We stood and fought and WE went to Prison Camp. They turned and Ran. What can they do?" Another student said, "NO Problem. When Saddam comes, we run away and call Bill Clinton and America. They come and take Saddam away and we come back."

In the classroom you earn your money. Every Penny of it and no matter how much it is.... you will always feel it's not enough. The Only way to survive is After Class activities. I chose Scuba Diving. Some of the best in the world is on the Arabian Peninsula.

To give you an example of just how good the diving is. I was down about 90' in the Cayman islands looking around to find something to look at. NOTHING. I decided then and there to go BACK to Saudi so I could get some Diving in. I had an offer in Riyadh which is in the desert and Religious police always chase you around or go to Jeddah for 20,000 dollars less. I chose Jeddah. I got on the plane as an English Teacher and when I got off I was a Sr. Technical Editor. i got to the job and there was absolutely NOTHING to do. I sat there for eleven months doing NOTHING relating to Editing. I did get to sit in on some High Dollar meetings ( 130 Million Dollar Contracts) and take and then transcribe the minutes. I also got to help some guys from ICAO (UN Civil Aviation people0) work on some RFP's. Those were interesting but the rest was doing nothing.

It can go either way but sometime during your contract you walk down the hall and say to yourself, "Is this what my life has amounted to." Payday comes and you feel better.

It takes a special mindset to work in the Middle East. It may take a couple of contracts until you get the hang of it.

Good luck to anybody who goes.

Hello,
I have approximately eight years in Saudi Arabia and another contract in Kuwait. I have taught Military, Banking, and Petrochemical company employees. I have also done a contract as Sr. Instructor for the Kuwaiti Air Defense Forces. In my work I have probably been to about forty different cities while level testing. In about three weeks I am going to another country in the Middle East because I want to go Scuba Diving every weekend for a few months.

Just don't be an Ethnochentric J##k O#f and expect them to be like you want them to and you should do fine. Find something to do besides sitting cooped up in your flat eating Noodle dishes with the other expats while you have a b##ch session and develop obscure exercises on the comma. But that goes for every country.

Don't be afraid to go to the Middle East. It may not be what you are used to but you can bet it will be different. Once you learn HOW to live there, it can be a lot of fun. Oh yea. You have to like Biege.

Also, remember that your concept of something and theirs are completely different. You can look at a chair and they will have a different idea about that chair than you do. Your ideas will almost NEVER CROSS and be the same.

gharwell1

Many people on this humorous board have many things to say. They also have an opinion about Bush and the Middle East, etc..... Yak! Yak! Yak!
BUT..... has anyone actually been there, talked to people there, have friends from the Middle East or have taught with people from the Middle East?

Probably not!

What are you talking about st##id!! I finished my honourable discharge. Boy are you a moron that knows nothing about anything.

Everyone dislikes me??? Wow, you polled everyone? Thats remarkable. How did you manage that? Even your rejoinder, Gump, isnt that brash.

As for therapy, thats like the pot calling the kettle black. If Im miffed, its at your vapid, silly remarks. In final words, as I know youll love to have the last one knowing your simian intelligence, Ill leave with a quote from Einstein:

He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

March off to war arm-chair warrior.

Wow, I guess my Hitler hyperbole wasnt so bad compared to that one.

When you leave, please take Beatrix the Bit#h out with you. Then, maybe we can have peace without the war mongering Republicans.

Neither one of you served in a military but laud Bushs army. I did my time, you havent. Off you go..little Hitlers cadetsgo find a bad school that will take you.

Onward Christian soldiers...hup two three four...

Thank God. Two masters degrees. Yeh, from a diploma mill over the Internet maybe.

Yes, a person of your age with a 23 year old wife says it all. Im happily married to someone closer to my age. I guess you had to find a young one to match your mental age.

Really, your posts belie it all. Youre just a quack, a fake; please get out of ESL. Anyway, leaving this board will suffice for me.

bye, bye...Gumpy

My students would miss me. You would too if I stopped replying to you. It is sad that this is all you have in your life. I have stated elsewhere how full my life is. I will go live it now - knowing,too, that I have helped many people over the years. You haven't helped any as far as I can see. And you haven't given any facts, either. Just a lot of crazed criticisms based on nthing.

Shakespeare should have been referring to you when he said " full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

I think you must be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, that's why you have too much time on your hands, and why your random jounal entries are so disordered. Get some therapy.

The reason no one likes you is that you are a negative person, who attacks others for contributing towards discussions re ESL and other topics. It's not an attack at you, but your unfortunate behaviour.

If you are in the army you are under orders whether you agree with them or not, if you like them or not, so this will be why you are no longer in the army, because you could not submit to leadership.

Beatrix!

Are you implying that your years have imparted wit on you??? I think that lights a little dim. Armed for what? Your rubber band energized one struggling brain cell? Boy, I better stop after 10 beers to match your wit.

Nope that last word was a mistake - surely - having made them in every single post you have here - you recognize them. I have been a teacher longer than your brain has been alive- and that was just after my first day of teaching!

Don't get into a battle of wits unarmed.

You know, I have this 10 year old Korean kid and former student which still e-mails me quite often. Hes a great kid and he loves baseball, as do I. So we both celebrated the Reds breaking the curse of the Bambino.

Yes, Koreans are great people, but you pulled a typical Republic shtick by obfuscating the point with nice words but never elucidating your main point. Of course North Koreans are suffering from the US imposed sanctions and Kim Jong Il with his psychotic concepts. However, your point was not made at all.

To say that Bush is brilliant with a long term scope means you didnt take your smart pill today. So lets do a little quick analysis shall we.

How things are looking in the long term:

Iraq disintegrates into the Kurds in the north, the split Sunnis and Shiites in the middle and south. From this chaos comes infiltration and influence in Turkey, Iran and Syria. Now, the Middle East is really cooking like a hot summer day in Baghdad. More Freedom Fighters are popping up everywhere and the US military cant contain it. The US is stretched thin and the budget deficit is in the red zone. Europe keeps out and Russia uses this to hit Chechnya really hard. The US will back off Russia because it needs what little allies it can garner.

The ensuing chaos then causes a confrontation with Iran. Iran and Israel already have a row over the nukes Iran is/has developing/developed. Israel gets angry and pops a few gunships over to Iran where the nukes are supposed to be. Then Iran retaliates. The price of oil not only stays over 55 USD a barrel but keeps going up due to this crisis. China is still drinking oil, sorry Dos, like an opium crazed junky (in addition to the US). Oil skyrockets and even ESL teachers cant find work due to the sagging economy.even in .yesChina. The US drops its product consumption, as people are maxing-out their credit cards and jobs are a scarcity. This will slow consumption of Chinese goods and slow its economy as well.

Lastly, Korea now is scared of pre-emption from the US and accelerates its own nuke program and possibly contributes help to Iran and others against the US.

How Bush couldve made things for long term:

The US couldve stayed with the UN. Since the US president has strong negotiating powers over Israel, a power brokerage couldve been sealed. The deal couldve been made with the Arab states like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, to name a few, to form a Muslim UN peace keeping contingency. Then the US couldve FORCED ISREAL to allow a Palestinian state and move out of the West Bank.

In return, the Muslim peace keeping force would move into Iraq and call for the peaceful hand over of Saddam. If that didnt happen, the UN-Muslim peace keepers would take out Saddam BUT LEAVE the infrastructure the same. The infrastructure would be less Saddam and his sons of course.

Then, the Muslim peace keepers could make a MUSLIM DEMOCRACY NOT an AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. The oil would be secured by OPEC and out of American hands. The Iraqi people would form a Muslim state similar to the one before Saddam was helped into power by the CIA. Iran would also be pressured but NOT sanctioned off. Israel would EXCEPT that it MUST not be a hegemony in the Middle East if peace is to continue. Since the US has the power to force Israel in that direction through its own sanctions, that wouldve given the US soooo much credibility in the Arab/Muslim world we wouldnt be having this discussion now.

Final analysis, Beatrix and Mr. me need a little more worldly understanding of history and politics before the postulate on how things will be. From the confines of their comfortable chair, religious myopia and sheltered middle-class life, they are indeed clueless of what is going on.

> All opponents of Bush are disgusted with the amount of carnage
> caused, as opposed to the possibility of more carnage later with the
> threats of a world dictator. Put your glasses on!(short-sighted).

> I realise it's simplisitic, but at least he did something, and my heart does go out to the people involved in all carnage and loss of life.

Ahhhhh...noooo.....Me thinking you shud putting you glasses on, too neh.

Ahhh.....soooo... des ka neh, Mr. Bush did something alright....neh...

Ahhhh.. nooooo...He.. neh...sending many many thousands and thousands of young, ignorant and innocent Americans...neh...to their graves for his own poilitical gains..neh.... and will keep doing so...neh....

Ahhh... soooo....If members of your family...neh....ended up dead fighting....neh..or murdered in Iraq or any other countries...neh.... would you saying the same thing...neh.......

Ahhh...nooooo....me thinking..neh...you ...neh... will scolding vulgar words neh ... at Mr. bush....neh...

Ahhhh..nooooo.. so me thinking you....neh...must putting you glasses on and starting to thinking neh.

Arigato.

The Koreans are separated by a DMZ, which forced family members apart. When the leader of North Korea passes on, the Government Department that deals with the Reunification of the Koreas will step in.
Bush in his superior knowledge realises that the world is playing a waiting game. If the North comes under the South, then Unified Korea will be a little like North America, but with kimchi and soju, etc.

Public opinion is that all of North Korea is waiting for the leader to pass on, for freedom. That his reign will not be perpetuated. They are hungry, cold, have to do what the leader assigns for life, including employment, and where they live, including city.
Many South Koreans go up to the border to gaze across the border, waiting, hoping and praying. There are statues of Mary, Buddha, etc. There is even a re-unification video that only the South Korean nationals are allowed to watch. Little girls cry........

Each nation is a different case with different ideaologies and beliefs.

I have personally noticed how affectionate Koreans are. Little boys hug and are very close to each other, so how can you judge their nature if you have not seen it first hand? I could not believe how close relationships are between Korean nationals, even bus drivers. Something that the west could learn from I'd say.

There are cross border sports trips, reunification of family visits, hiking groups are taken to the North from the South.

So this is why I am not SCARED of Bush and his methods.

You can't assume that because a happened today, then b will happen next time. Individuals are individuals.

Trying really hard to be objective,
Beatrix

Boy, are you blind!!! The attack had NOTHING to do with weapons of mass destruction, since there weren't any. There were NO links to Al-Qa'ida found. What was the rush to war? It was for a failing US economy and the need to secure the oil so America can remain a dominant country in the world...not to mention cheap oil.

Yes Saddam was bad and so is Omar Kadafi. North Korea HAS weapons of mass destruction (nuclear). Why werent they attacked???

A full UN solution could have and should have been made. Now, the best estimate is that Iraq will be in chaos if not outright civil war and ruin.

Little Georgy has the mental wit of Hitler and the ideology of the very fanatics he wants to kill. Your view is the governments hook-line-and-sinker theyve spinned: which you swallowed whole, Im afraid.

Anyway, the truth is unraveling as we speak. You can argue and argue but one only has to read the news.

To trivialize the deaths of those people as a just death for Bushs plan of democracy is insensitive of you at best and outright scary at worst, to tell you the truth. However, what you or I say won't matter, you will see that you are wrong, even with those coke bottle goggles you're wearing.

Also, notice that I didnt attack you about Clinton. Personally, I didnt like him that much. I stand on principle NOT party.

Anyway, I do appreciate that your response is a little more detailed than the rebuttal by Gumpy.

Oh, you really know history. Do you know anything??

O Ok Gump, you asked for it.

Any I##OT that would go to a foreign country on a tourist visa, and find out until its almost too late that the school did nothing, asks for trouble. Now, you beseech others to help you in your blunder. Is this someone that can even fathom history?????

Really, I hope they have the sense to kick your Gump butt out of Korea. You would obviously give REAL teachers, the ones that have an education past high-school, a bad name.

So China, lookout, heeeeere comes me. Yes, the man that invented a name soooooo original that we all dropped our jaw in response his innate puns. Yes, A man that can only articulate one to two grunts at a time because he cant think of any diatribe more than a few simple nouns and adjectives.

"Simple is as simple does", eh, Gumpy???

Comparing Bush to Hitler is a ridiculous comparison. Saying that the comparison is ridiculous is not a slam of you, but of a statement you made. You are the one making the ad hominem attacks. It would be nice if you'd stop.

The sad thing is that there are people who believe that Clinton was absolutely right in doing nothing at all. Bush did what needed to be done, Beatrix. I agree with you fully on that. Amazing that someone would compare Bush with Hitler as another respondent did. People who can do that need to study history.

Some people take themselves just a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit too seriously. If you had taught for 27 years, you'd probably not do that.

Let's all have fun because we all die in the end.

Confucius never said no such thing! Besides you can't learn without thinking or think without learning

I don't like correcting simple mistakes but this is a big one and it needs attention: "Confucius never said ANY such thing!". Don't use a double negative. That's English 101, "me".

He who walks righteouly and speaks uprightly, who despises the gain of oppressions, who shakes his hands from holding a bribe, who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed and shuts his eyes from looking upon evil, he will dwell on the heights; his place of defence will be the fortresses of rocks; his bread will be given to him, his water will be sure. Your eyes will see the King in his beauty: they will see a land that stretches far.
Isaiah 33:15-17

Confucius never said no such thing! Besides you can't learn without thinking or think without learning