esl in asia
- 2004-12-10
Wow, isnt the Internet great. Any crass, uneducated and immature person can rant. I didnt even say anything negative toward you. I think Paul is right: you should chill out. Ill even go a step further and say you should grow up. I hope you can stay your whole life in ESL. In fact I encourage you to stay just where you are. Enjoy your career, as I know you are very proud of it. Now will you just give it a rest? Or, are we going to have some more immature musings?
The Observer
- 2004-12-10
listen mr esl-in-asia me old tomodachi , i don't have and have never needed a "support group" - are you sure that's not something to do with multiple hernia? on one night a week i spend a few hours with an English speaking friend or two, and the rest of the time -due to the nature of my work and the place of birth of my ladyfriend - i am in the company of and see chinese people only. you might be surprised (and perhaps even disgusted) to hear that this doesn't bother me at all. in fact i had never really thought about it at all, much less thought that anybody would consider this in any way remarkable until the wonder of the internet enlightened me as to the nature of your strange mentalmeanderings...
...and before you start - i am not in "the honeymoon phase" (a term that people who say things like "support group" would no doubt also be quite fond of). i have spent many years in asia and quite a few of the most recent 8 in china. i am also older than you.
as regards your comments about salaries and ESL as a career choice, i agree with you in that it would be ridiculous for someone with little or no relevant academic background, little or no relevant practical experience, and no specialised experience specific to the field and to a particular location to seriously consider ESL as a long term prospect anywhere (at least one with the prospect of advancement) until they had started to make a serious effort to accrue the experience and qualifications that serious employers look for;the same sort of thing can be said about architects, brain surgeons, civil engineers and those in any other profession you care to mention.
but then again we are really talking about 2 quite different and for the most part unrelated things, aren't we. i.e. the profession of esl, and what you and paul do. i agree with you, that at 39 and with your attitude there are probably few openings for you in the field, but who knows, there might be hope yet for paul if he gets some solid background and learns a bit of patience.
esl in asia
- 2004-12-09
Maybe I can be a moderator of types here. Paul you have a point and T.O. you have a point. Let me give my point and this will either diffuse things or inflame, I hope the former. As I see it, Paul maybe suffering more from the discontent with the Chinese than ESL in China itself. Let me explain.
Ive taught now in the Czech Republic, Canada and now Japan. One issue that Ive learned is that culture IS important when you work abroad. I always wondered how it is that some people had such a great time and could only rave about how great a place was while I found it abysmal. My case in point was the Czech Republic. I found the culture dull and as cold as a winters day in Iceland. I cant tell you how many times I had shopkeepers turn their backs on me when I politely, in their language, asked to buy something. Or, the time when a Czech woman working in an English speaking train information booth slammed the window closed so as to not talk to two affable Indian travellers. I hated that place so much that even the great money I was making for that economy was not enough. So I bailed cursing and vowing to NEVER waste my time with such a s&it culture as that.
So how is it that I hated it and others liked it so much? Well, I realized that many teachers that enjoyed their time had a little foreigners bubble or support group. You know, I always believed in going native to get the real experience of a country. That is, I didnt want to hang around Americans, Canadians, or other foreigners. So I worked for a Czech company and tried to have only Czech friends and girlfriends. Even though I had the Czech girlfriends, I was still lonely as hell. Why? Because unlike the guys that went to the pub with other foreigners (and maybe their Czech girlfriends), I tried to go to Czech pubs alone or with my girlfriend and got the good ol cold shoulder. I tried to speak Czech but that didnt work either.
So my point is that T.O mentioned his Australian blokes at the pub. I may be wrong but he sounds like he has that support group. Having a support group is not just because we cant leave home. I have lived now in 8 countries. Some were great with foreigners and others were not. It sounds like Paul is having this experience. Actually, I can see similarities in the Chinese culture and the Czech. They both are relatively new to stepping outside of isolated communism. Really folks, it was bad. People were spying on each other so you had to be cold and cruel. I can only image that the Chinese are not going to be the most polite bunch for that reason either. As I get older, politeness means so much to me where I live. Thats why I enjoy Japan so much. What a change from Europe and particularly the bloody sod of a place, the Czech Republic. In these environments, a support group is tantamount to successful living. Again, my definition of support group is English speaking friends or colleagues that you spend most of your time with while abroad.
On to the point of T.O. Yes, you are right that China is booming like America back in the 90s.. but on steroids. It wont be long before the Dragon will be blowing fire up Americas arse (actually it already is). But, things arent quite there yet for ESL teachers to save money like they did in Japans boom times.
But ESL for a career...well. Im 39 and Im just darn lucky to have an English teaching job. Im now married and we want to have children. ESL is not a profession to support a family for reasons I dont want to belabour here. Second, with ageism rampant, I cant see lasting until retirement. Then there is retirement. How many ESL teachers will get a pension? Maybe if they are the lucky few to work for a university. Otherwise, career should just mean early 20s to 30s and get the heck out before your hair is grey. But you are right that relative to the economy, you can live quite well.
You both have valid points and are both right. But neither one of you are 100 percent correct in the big picture. Yes, China will be a cash cow in the future but China may not be a great place to live if you dont have a foreigners bubble to encapsulate you from the harsher realities of culture clash. Lastly, ESL is not a career choice if you want a retirement and raise a family.
Sorry for the long response, you can wake up now 