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#1 Parent cobra - 2008-11-06
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Ali,thank you for your post!!!

#2 Parent Raoul Duke - 2008-11-04
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Well, whattaya know...it's back up!
When I visited the US 4 months ago the effective rate mere ordinary mortals (as opposed to major banks and exchanges who actually get those official rates) were getting was close enough to 6:1 to make it a reasonable guesstimate for these purposes.

$82 doesn't really affect the actual point all that much, really, but still it's good to insist on accuracy.

I have no money changer. That would imply that I have money. ;-{)

#3 Parent Raoul Duke - 2008-11-04
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

My favorite way around exchange difficulties is to use a local entreprenerial, uh..."currency exchange consultant" (that's what it said on his card), who generally gives competitive rates, doesn't give a wet slap about limits, and will complete the transaction in about a hundredth of the time and hassle of the nearest Bank of Mei-You, I mean, uh, China.

#4 Parent callmefred - 2008-11-04
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Sorry Smack, The standard example of the contract used by most schools/colleges/universities these days says 70% of the monthly salary in Yuan can be exchanged.
The easy way around any exchange difficulties however, is to take any one of your students into the Bank Of China and stand with them while they exchange your Yuan for any other currency US$, Euro, Pound Sterling, Aus$ etc. Chinese citizens are allowed to change Yuan up to the value of US$ 50,000 per year simply on production of their I.D. card.

The way the Yuan is rising and the US dollar falling in these hard times, it will soon be 1 to 1 with a bit of luck and we'll all be rich on our RMB salaries. (some hope ! )

#5 Parent callmefred - 2008-11-04
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Apologies, my post re: money exchange should have been in reply to Turino, not Smack.

#6 Parent Turino - 2008-11-04
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

I don't think Raoul Duke's example of $667.00 being equivalent to 4000 Yuan was meant to be an accurate guide for someone looking to exchange Yuan for dollars. It should be only deemed a rough guide used to compare the relative lifestyles of FT's in China on 4000 Yuan/month with employees in the U S on 667 US Dollars/month,in truth a difficult comparison to make accurately.
In any case,a FT teaching in China on 4000 Yuan/month would only be allowed to convert a maximum of 30% of his monthly salary into foreign currency, and only on a monthly basis at that.

#7 Parent SMACK - 2008-11-03
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Tell me, who is your money changer? I'd like to use him for my currency conversion. It's obvious you haven't bothered to look at exchange rates lately (a year or more). Your example of $667.00 (4000) yuan is off by $82.00 on the HIGH side. Current rate of exchange is 6.84 yuan to the dollar. 3,328 = $667.00.

#8 Parent Raoul Duke - 2008-11-03
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Turino say, "you...have chosen one of the most looked down upon and lowly paid examples of MENIAL WORK."

It's a fair cop. I did. For more dramatic effect, maybe?

Anyway. The point I really wanted to make was that, already being aware of the definition of "menial", I would hate to see Teaching yield up a lifestyle equal to ANY menial job in our home countries. This would be true anywhere except perhaps some of those strife-torn jungle countries that the Peace Corps might send you to; it'd certainly be true in China.

It ought to be better. Being a teacher in China should, and from what I've seen DOES, let one live better than your "waiter in a fast food restaurant" back in our home countries. I didn't think fast food restaurants even HAD waiters these days, but still...

I think a lot of us here, no matter where we come from, sell ourselves too cheaply. Some of us are economic refugees; some of us are just really keen and excited to come to China and grab the first offer they get; some of us just don't know any better. A full-time teacher in a public school in a small backwater Chinese city ought to be getting more than US$667 (~4000 RMB) a month. China can be a cheap place to live...but not THAT cheap. And, I'd submit that most of us don't really come here to teach, we come here for travel and experiences and adventure and really wild things- and those take money.

I'd like to see a day when teachers- native speakers or not- start saying "NO" to some of these lowball salaries. Unfortunately, I don't think that day will come soon. Too many people either don't know or don't care.

BTW, I taught Business- Management, Marketing, etc.- not Business English...and the toll of the underequipped was perhaps even higher than it no doubt is in a language class.

#9 Parent Turino - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Raoul Duke,cfi;menial,adj,MENIAL WORK is boring and needs no skill,and is USUALLY done using your hands rather than your mind,Longman advanced American dictionary,2003 edition.So,MENIAL WORK needn't just be: "You can live better than the guys that CLEAN THE BATHROOMS IN OFFICE BUILDINGS";you, not me, have chosen one of the most looked down upon and lowly paid examples of MENIAL WORK.Working as a waiter in a fast food restaurant in the West is also MENIAL WORK, a first job after graduation for many university degree holders who flood the shrinking job market every year around mid July.
Furthermore, I don't think you've had "really different college teaching experiences than you guys". I've taught business classes too, but not efficiently and/or effectively because of the low English levels of many of my students.
I think that it's the role of Chinese teachers of English to teach such classes as opposed to FT's,unless your university happens to be one of China's best.
Probably you know that students are asked to fill in forms about their teachers' teaching.That's the feedback the leaders use to judge your teaching by. Working your butt off, as you put it, may not ingratiate yourself with the majority of your students.They certainly don't want to work their butts off;they'd rather just sit on them and do as little as possible!Yes,"it gets depressing after a while",in fact, only after a short one!That's why I avoid teaching business English in China.Anywhere requiring me to teach that subject will be rejected at once by me.Oral English is my best teaching option in China.

#10 Parent Raoul Duke - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Turino say, "you can live well compared to the lifestyle of Westerners doing menial work in the West."
And this sentence speaks volumes. "You can live better than the guys that clean the bathrooms in office buildings." ;-{)

Cobra say, "I think they mustnt pay attention to the passport ones hold and judge foreigners by the colour of skin etc., the most important fact is teaching ability, willingness to teach, working skills. why not to pay him what he deserves?"
I hear that. I with ya 100%. But unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to be the real world. Not in China, anyway. Of course some jobs are more serious, but an awful lot of places, including some publics and unis, really just want dancing monkeys. Preferably dancing WHITE monkeys...
Those graces we think of as part of education simply aren't always valued very much here. Every owner or manager will SAY those things are valued, of course, but in reality all too often they are not.

Cobra also say, "Full time job is mostly giving lectures..."etc.
I think Turino was talking more in terms of actual workload...hours spent at labor.

I had really different college teaching experiences than you guys, it seems. I've mostly taught regular-credit Business classes, and I worked my BUTT off. Heavy prep requirement, big lecture schedule, and endless tons of grading. All for a system where very few students spoke enough English to follow the lectures at all, and the degrees could simply be bought at graduation time anyway. It gets pretty depressing after a while...

#11 Parent Turino - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Put it this way,I'd be satisfied with 4000 - 5000 Yuan a month for teaching 16 periods of oral English a week at a college in a small city or on the outskirts of a big one in Northern China.In fact, I dislike provincial capitals in China because of their size and the relative unfriendliness of some of the citizens there.
But that's not necessarily what other FT's are looking for,either in terms of location or salary or workload or any combination of them.
I'd regard my ideal 16-lesson/week job as a part-time job and it would suit me fine.But the college asked me if I would accept a busier schedule, 22 periods a week instead of the original 18 a week. I accommodated them,obviously for a higher salary. Now I'm on 6300 a month instead of the originally agreed 5040 a month,pro rata approximately.But I'd have been equally happy with the lower salary for teaching fewer periods!It's true that I'm a native speaker of English who has taught in China for a long time to date, but money isn't my primary concern.
As for you, don't forget that public schools/colleges in China have to offer you salaries commensurate with your academic qualifications.If you are as good a teacher as you claim you are in your resume, you should be able to negotiate a moderately higher salary on completing your first contract at that school. But of course what you think of your teaching skills needn't be reflected by your employer's evaluation of them.
As for those qualifications for teaching English that you've mentioned,I've found that employers much prefer FT'S to have previous teaching experience in China rather than the paper qualifications you mentioned in one of your other posts.
Finally,I agree with you re the unfairness of employment opportunities and salaries re creed and colour of FT's and would-be FT's.But there's little, if anything, that we can do to change it.
Also bear in mind that many Chinese employers are very picky when it comes to a foreigner's accent.And they're often not the best judges of that in any case.
Good luck,anyway,but don't believe oral promises.If the employer hasn't signed for something in the contract,it'll be extremely unlikely you will get it later!

#12 Parent cobra - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

I wonder how much money do you earn at school now. I don't think 3500 RMB. It's a good salary for chinese english teachers but not for foreign teachers. We are foreigners here and we are not at our own country. My chinese friend is an english teacher, he has been teaching over 20 years and he earns only 4000RMB and he says that its not enough for him. The prices on food getting higher day by day even in China. (eggs, meat, etc) I think a foreign teacher deserves higher pays. Regardless he is a native speaker or not, 5000 RMB at least.
see this site http://www.teachabroadchina.com/can-non-native-english-speakers-teach-in-china/
posted by filipino teacher earning 8500 RMB a month plus 150 yuan per hour for extra classes.

#13 Parent cobra - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

well, what you are saying is unfortunately true( Chinese employers want to use non- native speakers and exploit to the fullest.
I think they mustnt pay attention to the passport ones hold and judge foreigners by the colour of skin etc., the most important fact is teaching ability, willingness to teach, working skills. why not to pay him what he deserves? if he does his job perfect, pay him well.

#14 Parent cobra - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Full time job is mostly giving lectures,staff meeting and english corners including class preparation and checking home works.

#15 Parent Ali - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

I'd advise you to send a CV to info@beyazelma.com I have heard that they are looking for English teacher with russian background maybe it will be a better choice. Good Luck.b

#16 Parent Turino - 2008-11-02
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

I suppose it all depends what you call a full-time job.Where I come from, 16x45 minutes/week would never be deemed a full-time job by officialdom.
And so long as you're not a gourmet nor a whisky alcoholic nor a bar fly, you can live well compared to the lifestyle of Westerners doing menial work in the West.
I could go back to my homeland to teach high school math. But I wouldn't touch secondary school teaching in the West with a bargepole these days.Too much hassle with keeping attendance and teaching records,unruly pupils,longer hours in the classroom than in China, correcting students' homework after class,and paying house rent.Although I could earn more money there,its buying power would be much less.
Besides,regurgitating the same oral lesson 8 times a week to college students without having to correct written homework is a very good deal for 4-5000 a month for somebody without any formal teaching qualifications in the subject of English.I know there are many backpackers without university degrees teaching English here too who couldn't obtain a teaching post or other professional employment anywhere in the world except in the PRC.
As for the free accommodation,it's usually a flat of at least 80 square metres,more than adequate for a single person.
Having said all that,each FT has his own individual needs and priorities!

#17 Parent Raoul Duke - 2008-11-01
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

"He should realise there are many native teachers of English in China living well off 4000 to 5000 RMB/month."

Yes...but the homies have family support, some social benefits in many places, bank credit, and other things that help offset the lower salaries. They also tend to live much more simply than most non-Asians do...and from what I've seen, tend to live relatively boring, home-centered lives that most of us don't come here to do.

It's really, really hard to compare what the Chinese need to earn in salary, to what any foreigner is likely to need.

Foreign teachers CAN live OK here on 3500 RMB a month (although I couldn't)...but generally NOT if they also have to pay rent, unless they either take horrible tiny ratbag apartments or they're in a really depressed economy where housing is dirt cheap (and there still are a few of those in China, deep in the hinterlands...).

4000 RMB a month with no housing provided, for a foreign teacher working full time, is unconscionable...native speaker or not. This is exploitation of the lowest and nastiest sort. A lot of non-native speakers have a rough time of it here, and a greater willingness to sell themselves for less, and less job mobility, than the native speakers, Many of the schools know this...and exploit it to the fullest. Non-native speakers CAN find better, but compared to native speakers it is more difficult- especially if the non-native speaker isn't white. Europeans (including Russians) generally do a lot better in China than their non-white Asian and African colleagues. Sad but true...

#18 Parent Turino - 2008-11-01
Re: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Cobra has posted:The only school agreed to recruit me and pay me at most 3500 RMB per month. How can i live for such money abroad? I must have meals and spend money on other things.
My reply:Doesn't he realise that most Chinese teachers of English, also non-native speakers like him,would be delighted to earn that kind of salary despite, unlike him, having to deduct rent from it?
Unless he's a crocodile, the cost of his meals shouldn't be a problem!But I have to wonder what 'the other things' he needs would include!
He should realise there are many native teachers of English in China living well off 4000 to 5000 RMB/month.

cobra - 2008-11-01
China: Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with high salary

Can non native speakers get an excellent english teaching position in China with the salary at least 6000 RMB ?
Hi everybody! I am an English teacher from Russia. I am in China for one month already and I can't find a good english teaching position. I sent a lot of letters to schools and most of them say: we need native speakers only. The only school agreed to recruit me and pay me at most 3500 RMB per month. How can i live for such money abroad? I must have meals and spend money on other things. I wish to earn 6000 RMB a month. If you know some schools recruiting non native speakers with good salary can you reply me? I would like to work in the northeast of China, preferably such cities as Changchun, Harbin, Dalian, Shengyan, etc.....
Hope to hear from you.

[Edited by Administrator (admin) Sat, 14 May 2011, 03:12 AM]

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