Not surprised anymore
- 2009-01-14
I have spoken with this school again. Apparently they will not, of course, give one inch. No phone, no internet unless I pay.
As for the phone, yes you pay a fee per minute, everyone knows this. However, the long distance calls are a different per minute cost, and are indeed seperated form the local ones. Also, if I spent 10,000 minutes a month on the phone, even locally, I would not expect them to pay all that. I would expect a certain amount though,at least a couple hundred a month for this. Most of the Uni ads I see say free phone and internet. With such low salaries, how in the world can they expect foreigners to want to work for them with no perks at all?
They also had no problem spending my own money, telling me that if they sent me to HK, I would be flipping the bill for travel. Absurd. I am going to pay for something they require for me to work for them? I suppose covering al visa costs doesn't apply to trips "outside" of mainland China.
I as very disappointed. Yes, Wuhan is a very hard place to be, very popular, and all the good Uni jobs get taken by people who know other people. Basically it is who you know, I never see posts here advertised online. Always someone who is a friend of a friend that gets the job.
I have a decade and half of teaching experience, yet they want to be cheap. I guess there are just too many folks out there who will work for peanuts and no benefits.
The only positive was decent healthcare coverage, but everything else, well, there was nothing else. What a sham.
I may post their name and info here later, don't know yet.
doesitmatter
- 2009-01-14
Druthernotsay has written the following:
"My biggest fear is that with the economy at home the way it is now more unqualified folks will flock here and things will get even worse."
Yes, how true it is. In a recent post, I mentioned that no less than six teachers had provided answers to their students for the final exams. Now it's up to seven. None of them will lose their jobs. They know that because: 1. there is no real accountability 2.The need for teachers is so great that any Tom, Dick or Harry can get a job in China teaching English. None of these teachers care one iota about their students, nor, obviously, are they driven by any sense of ethical behavior.
Meanwhile, some of you will support your fellow FTs until the cows come home - without regard to their pathetic behavior or their hidden agendas that have nothing to do with providing quality education.
druther not say
- 2009-01-14
Sadly, doesitmatter has hit the nail on the proverbial head. It's not just schools but ANYBODY here who can break the law with impunity if they "know" the right people. Even being here for over five years it still surprises me just how audacious these politically connected folks can be. At my uni it is just ridiculous. Of the seven or eight FT's at least five are there totally illegally. Three of them have been here for a number of years. Any truly qualified teacher catches on quickly and bolts, a few in the middle of the term without telling anyone. Any warm body with a "Western" face attached to it is hired, qualified or not. The living conditions are dreadful, the pay low and it seems nobody ever gets the promised airfare at the end of the contract but the unqualified folks say nothing because they know they'll never get another uni position anywhere else. As soon as I'm away from here I'll start naming names and providing details. My biggest fear is that with the economy at home the way it is now more unqualified folks will flock here and things will get even worse.
doesitmatter
- 2009-01-14
Ah, yes, wouldn't it be nice? Druthernotsay wrote the following:
"If the unqualified teachers would go home and if China would really enforce its own laws the schools here would be be forced to treat the truly qualified FT's with a bit more respect."
I couldn't agree more; however, just to clear some things up a little bit, let me add this quote from middlekingdomlife.com from an article that addresses the current rumor about the "five year rule."
"Here is the bottom line: If your school needs or wants you badly enough and they have established the proper social relationships with the right people (and they always have), it truly doesnt matter whether your particular municipality or province has officially adopted any one particular guideline into law or not. The converse is also true. Even if your local or provincial legislature has not officially adopted any given SAFEA guideline, that doesnt mean that it wont be cited against you if it suits the perceived needs of the school at that time. As Westerners, we spend an inordinate amount of time discussing and debating the existence of various rules and regulations that affect foreign teachers when, in fact, it would be far wiser (not to mention efficient) to discuss how to maintain key interpersonal relationships with those who are necessary for our continued success in China. And, in China, someone is always necessary for continued success. The Chinese instinctively know this, while foreigners naively point to their contracts and suggest to each other that those with problems should call the local Foreign Expert Bureau.
SAFEA guidelines and contracts in China primarily protect the schools, not the foreign teachers. Your best assurance against violations does not lie with government agencies or in the specific wording of, for example, paragraph 31 of your SAFEA contract addendum but, rather and almost entirely, in establishing good relationships with the very people who determine whether you are necessary for the good of the school, the community, andultimatelyChina itself."
doesitmatter
- 2009-01-13
You're exactly right: not unreasonable at all to expect the full range of perks. Apparently, they are not a real university anyway. If so, they wouldn't need you to go to Hong Kong to secure a visa. That is, it would be handled locally through the Foreign Affairs Office and the PSB. Sounds like a bogus operation to me and one that should be avoided.
The Enlightened One
- 2009-01-13
I totally and completely agree with you. Universities are known throughout the and market for paying lower than training centers. The perks are suppose to be paid for accommodations, utilities and stability. This will will surely have a VERY difficult time hiring any decent foreign teachers. I think we all need to stick together (we being foreign teachers) to a stronger degree than what is current. Remember that giving into these crappy condition will only make it worse for the rest of us... and future prospective foreign teachers.
I think you were entirely reasonable, but in China we all know being reasonable doesn't work very well. Most times you have to act like a straight up jerk to get what you want. It's sad really. No truer words could be spoken about the ESL market in China.
"Give them an inch, they take a mile, give them a mile and they own you."
druther not say
- 2009-01-13
You're preaching to the choir with this one. You are definitely not being unreasonable. I'm of the opinion that these schools in China should be so incredibly thankful to have a decent, QUALIFIED FT that doing little things like laying out a few hundred yuan for the internet and phone would be no problem. Instead they plead poverty. My one experience working at a public uni here was not a good one. At least five of the FT's there either lacked REAL degrees or were non-native speakers willing to put up with anything so when I, as a fully qualified native speaker with a real degree and teaching experience at home, asked for anything I was deemed a troublemaker and asked to leave. I know this will cause an uproar here but I blame all the unqualified FT's here for a lot of the problems in the entire ESL "industry" in China. If you ask, "Who would put up with all this for 5000RMB a month?" the answer is, "Someone with either fake or nonexistent credentials terrified of being discovered." To me the issue isn't "A degree doesn't necessarily make you a better teacher" or "Native speakers aren't necessarily better teachers." Those issues have already been debated here ad nauseam. The issue is, like it or not, it's the LAW. If the unqualified teachers would go home and if China would really enforce its own laws the schools here would be be forced to treat the truly qualified FT's with a bit more respect. I was quite naive in thinking public universities either couldn't or wouldn't hire less than qualified people but I was sadly mistaken. They're cheaper, for starters, and are usually less demanding and "unreasonable." Wait a few more weeks...schools will begin to panic as they see a new term starting and vacancies still not filled. It also wouldn't hurt to look at other areas of the country. From what I've read here Wuhan is pretty popular with foreigners and it might be easier for schools there to fill positions. Try Nanchang, for example. I'm still getting offers from universities there even though I'm not even looking anymore.
One more thing: Not sure what country you're from but, unlike in my home country, there is no "flat fee" for local calls here. One pays for every call no matter to where. That's why schools won't agree to pay for "local calls."
I was recently speaking to someone at a University about a position with them and their school. Upon reading the contract, I found some things I did not think were so reasonable. Upon raising my concerns, and saying what I would like, the person insulted me, and told me to have a good day.
Now, all I asked for was that they provide me with internet in my apartment, and cover the cost, as wel as the cost of local calls. We all know how poorly Universities pay, and this one was no exception. however they usually make up for their poor pay by covering the costs of everything, from living to utilities. When they stop doing this, well, what are the perks than?
I should add that, they also expected me to pay my own expenses for traveling to HK for a visa, though they are the ones who wished me to go. I found this unfair. If I am the one having to make a trip to get a work visa for my job, the job should be covering the expense. They refused.
Therefore I ask you all, what is reasonable to ask of a school? Should we just overlook penny pinching of this nature, when our pay is extremely low?
What is reasonable? Firstly, internet in our home paid by the school, is this reasonable or unreasonable?
I think it depends on what you are being paid. however, for a Uni job, totally reasonable. Why? Low pay, a market that seems to support this, since most Uni's offer this.
They also refused to cover my phone, only local calls. They proceeded to say no University in Wuhan provides free internet and local phone. Iknew this was not true, and said as much.
What say you, free phone coverge for local calls a perk that should be included, should we have to pay for it? I say for Universities, not. As for oher schools, depends on the pay and other benefits.
What about visa expenses? I think any and al schools should cover all costs, including any travel you must do to get said visa. After all, the visa is for their school, to work for them. Why should I be required to pay the bill when it is for their sake, for their rules? Of course you should not have to, for any school. What say you?
These may seem like little things, but they add up believe me. Give an inch they will take 10 miles, believe that.
I also firmly believe there is no harm in asking. If there is, than you don't want to work for that school anyhow.
Please everyone, share things you feel are reasonable, and unreasonable, for schools to offer, or ask of us, could prove interesting.