TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
Return to Index › To the "Jury"
#1 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2009-07-30
Re: To the "Jury"

There's no knicker twisting going on over here; just a person with a different view to yourself.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do or think. That's your choice and you're entitled to it. My purpose was simply to state that I thought you were being unreasonable. I also stated why. I never accused you of being racist, either.

It's your choice of course but you might like to think over the following questions; you don't have to reply to them, and they are not supposed to constitute an interrogation. However, they may help you to understand my objections to your views:-

If you don't feel comfortable with somebody disagreeing with your view, why did you post such an extreme view on a public discussion forum?

If you can't stand 95% of the foreigners in China, no matter what their skin colour is, why pick out only Africans to discriminate against?

When you say that you won't bother with any Africans at all who apply for work at your school because of your previous bad experiences with them, does that not make your actions prejudiced and unreasonable?

Do you realize that Africa is not a country, but a continent made up of around 50 countries?

Does The "Manliness" of African men make you feel insecure or inadequate?

You complain about Chinese prejudice and how they look down on foreigners, including whites. Your personal experience of this upset you enough to make you feel that you may assault someone in the future. As you look down on Africans and treat them with prejudice, don't you think that makes you a hypocrite?

Why is a person pathetic just because he thinks he may enjoy a better life in another country?

The following sentences in bold, are direct quotes from your posts on this topic:-

I'm somewhat, um, big and I can't walk anywhere without hearing comments about fat white people. (Every once in a while, against my better judgement, I've yelled at some guy that I'm fat because my country is rich and his has been poor for a few thousand years

Some day you'll read an account of a white guy assaulting a Chinese guy after one too many "fat" comments. That'll be me.

If the truth be told I can't stand about 95% of the foreigners I meet here no matter what color their skin is. It's seems nothing short of a crap shoot to find decent, qualified folks here to teach English. I'm simply playing percentages. My PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with African men here has been overwhelmingly negative.

Right now, truthfully, I'm just sick of China. If the present unemployment rate at home weren't close to 10% I'd probably just go home.

I know you included yourself in the following advice you gave to others, but based on the quotes above, should you really be telling others this, while you are still in China?

A quote from yourself:-

For many Africans, being subjected to "racism" in China beats living in a country as badly run and impoverished as theirs is. What I say to them, just like I say to myself and every other foreigner is: Go home if you can't take it anymore. Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

That's all folks!

#2 Parent meipang - 2009-07-29
Re: To the "Jury"

Seems there are just certain topics that are impossible to broach without some folks getting their knickers in a bunch. Nowhere in my post did I state, or even imply, that NO Africans from the entire continent should be hired to teach English here. I was actually quite careful to state otherwise. I was simply relating my own experience and opinion. As an American I'm very weary of the words "race" and "racist" and "racism." All of them have been beaten to a bloody pulp at home. If the truth be told I can't stand about 95% of the foreigners I meet here no matter what color their skin is. It's seems nothing short of a crap shoot to find decent, qualified folks here to teach English. I'm simply playing percentages. My PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with African men here has been overwhelmingly negative. "Racism" to me is inherently irrational. If one has logical, rational reasons for what he says he is not "racist." I've personally met exactly ONE African male teacher here who is a decent guy, does his job professionally, remains sober most of the time, keeps his, um, maleness in his pants and speaks relatively clear English without shouting. I've met a few who do one or more of those things but only one who does them all. However, in fairness, about 90% of the white foreign teachers I meet, and a high percentage of Asians and any other "race" I may have ignored in my haste to write this before I lose my motivation to bother, who are teachers here are also largely wanting and lacking in most qualities I find appealing in my fellow humans. The inescapable reality is that we "foreign teachers" here in China are largely a pathetic lot, as much as we hate to admit it. We're here because, for whatever reason, home wasn't working out for us. I'm sure I'll get a thousand or so indignant responses swearing that the author is here to save the world or has some other perfectly valid reason to be here and I'm sure some of them really aren't delusional or suffering from some other mental illness. I can only offer up myself as an example. I'd be on the first plane home tomorrow if some school in America gave me a very livable salary as well as an apartment and required me only to stand in front of a class for 16 or so hours a week and speak English so others could "practice" speaking with me. Most of us, including most posters here, KNOW this is true. For many Africans, being subjected to "racism" in China beats living in a country as badly run and impoverished as theirs is. What I say to them, just like I say to myself and every other foreigner is: Go home if you can't take it anymore. Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

#3 Parent Yingwen Laoshi, - 2009-07-28
To the "Jury"

Yes, you're correct; a lot of my points could have been explained a lot better. Even I can see more holes than a sieve in my post. I'm not sure what I was thinking about, before I pressed the post buttton. I still believe that I had some valid points, though. Let me try to explain them better.

Because some Africans lie on their resume, Meipang feels justified in not considering anybody at all from the huge continent of Africa. That is unjustified, over-reactive and prejudiced. Using that reasoning, because some white teachers also lie on their resumes, he shouldn't employ any white teachers either. Also, the fact that many Africans speak with a "heavy accent" does not justify excluding all. There is no reason not to consider those Africans who have good pronunciation.

Meipang may be correct in stating that some Africans are" sleazy" but, again this does not justify him not employing African English teachers in his school. Some, Africans being told to leave China does not mean that they should all be excluded from teaching English here. What has that got to do with the employment of African English teachers? Again, using that reasoning, all white teachers should not be considered for teaching positions in China, because some "sleazy" whites were also told to leave China.

By the way if you check your dictionary, Choatle, you will find that "Behaviour" is the British spelling of "Behavior". I do get these rushes of blood sometimes, where I rebel against pervasive American culture. I often used to enter a McDonalds in England and make a point of asking for a Big Mac and "Chips". Ok, I'm only joking with you! Joking means "kidding" by the way.

The fact that Africans are not native speakers should not automatically exclude all of them either, because a lot of them have a good standard of English and as I said earlier some of them do have good pronunciation. I made the point of black teachers, because the original poster mentioned black teachers. Anyway, I do concede that I was wandering from Meipang's point about African teachers.

Yes, my "unqualified" point was flawed, and yes his "handed lemons" point was valid, too. I think he should try to understand why some Africans lie about their country of origin, though. If I was an African, in China, facing the amount of prejudice that they often face, then I would be seriously tempted to lie, too. I don't think that it's justified, but it's understandable.

What I meant is, every country is racist in the sense that prejudice and the practice of racism exists in every country. It's unjustified and I hate it as much as the next person. Unfortunately, it is a part of human nature and is woven into the fabric of every country's society.

Choatle, your 80% point is ridiculous! First of all who stated that 80% of a population must behave in a certain way to a certain group of people before it can be called racist, and how do you know what percentages of people from different countries are racist? Have you undertaken any surveys? You're making up your own flawed criteria.

You missed the point of my post. It wasn't about being "pro China", I'm not even sure what you mean by that, anyway. My post was about African teachers in China.

Just because Africans are not native speakers, and some get involved in shady practices, lie on their resumes and have poor English pronunciation, it doesn't follow that every single person from that continent should be excluded from the opportunity of teaching English in China. Meipang's view on this is bigoted, unreasonable and prejudiced.

Sorry "Jury", there was no case to sit on, after all.

Return to Index › To the "Jury"





Go to another board -