eslguy, I agree x 3!

Couldn't have said it better myself!

People, listen up! I had experince in both countries. What he is saying is very true.

I could write a book, no lie. I did research online for South Korea for 8 months before finally accepting a position in EPIK, English Program In Korea. The first few weeks, I'd thought I had died and gone to heaven, I said, I will stay for a long time... years!!!!! Ha! After 2 months, I called the Supervisor and said, either you are transferring me out of this school, or I am going home. Since then, it is now four months and this is my account of a very small portion of what I have encountered:

-I am talked to using the English Language combined with Korean culture, so they say things like, "You MUST" or "I can CONTROL you" or "You SHOULD" OR "We MUST OBEY" and other words are used to communicate such as much (we ave much money), expect (my favorite!-"I will expect" or "I expect"), and duty. This is a culture based on obedience. Remember that!

-After my first week of teaching and using the 6 brand new computers in the classroom, setting up teams and incorporating Boggle with Seek N Find sheets I was told, "I EXPECT you to teach! The students are having too much fun, they cannot learn when they are having fun! They did not know how to play the game because they did not know the words" Then later, I was told that Boggle was only for small children, not high school students.

Of course, I had to iterate that these students have been learning English since they were toddlers and knew the words like, "pot", "top" and "hear", "ear", etc...One student came to me and said that they were looking up words in their dictionary.

-You will get mixed messages all the time. If you ask, "Do I speak to fast?" and they smile and say, "Yes", then the next sentence will be "I am sorry, I will try to speak slower" at which you will get a stare. Then you ask the same question again and you will hear, "No. I understood every word you were saying!" This happens very often. "Will you pick me up", often gets confused for "Will you take me home". All of this becomes a problem when you have talked to the same person for 3 days and had extensive conversations with no communication problems. You are assuming that everything is okay and that they are comprehending, afterall, maybe you asked if you should pick up something and they said, " no, leave it there" the next day, they will say, "No, I told you to pick it up" and they will swear to it...this happens a lot. It is strange and most of the time, you just smile and say, "Oh, I must have misunderstood you". In Korea, Koreans don't make mistakes, they are never wrong, you are a foreigner and treated as such, not trustworthy, not smart, and it must be your fault. In some stores like Emart or Hi Mart, they will follow you up the stairs, then stand at the end of the isle and watch you. But they don't treat others this way, only foreigners.

-And speaking of being treated untrustworthy, there is a case here in court waiting to be heard because one girl refused to be HIV tested and claimed it was against her rights and challenged the court because the Korean teachers don't have to have background checks or get HIV tests, drug tests or anything like we do.

-A friend quit after a few weeks here and his co-teacher told the new teacher that he was fired because he wouldn't follow the rules. I laughed when she told me that because they told her that only to scare and control her, I knew the truth. So everytime she left her apartment, she had to call her co-teacher and tell him where she is going, how long she will be gone and she has to call him when she gets back. NO ONE DOES THIS! I laughed and laughed and said, "Boy, they really have you trained! He never got fired, the other teacher quit. Actually, he told me after his first week that he wanted to quit and eveyone here knows how unhappy he was." So I learned from this experience and others, that in Korea, they are never wrong or at fault.

-I am "expected" to eat the Korean food in the cafeteria everyday. I am told that it is my duty to show support to the school (not 'for' the school). My friend at another school, can bring her lunch (um...peanut butter or tuna sandwiches everyday-there is no lunch meat here) but she has to eat in the cafeteria with the other teachers. My opinion after being here is that they don't care about liking you or being your friend, they want to hear a Native Speaker talk. They want to have conversation and learn from you on the school board's dime while you are miserable smelling fish and fermeneted cabbage eating your peanut butter sandwich while they ask 50 question and insult you all throughout your lunch.

-I offered to show videos and give websites for information on ESL Teaching and was told, "I have been teaching English Comprehension for 20 years. I don't need 'you' to show me how to teach!" This is from a man who enrolled in a TESOL course the day after I arrived, and had me correcting his papers before he turned them in to his professor. He also had me type up resumes for other teachers and their sons and daughters in English. They really try to get their money's worth I can promise you that!

-Teaching: The teachers sat in the back of the class and did nothing while I made all of the lesson plans, did all of the teaching and then they would get cold since the air conditioning is in the back of the classroom and they did not exert any energy. They would turn it off as I sweat in the front of the classroom teaching.This also happened to a girl who just arrived to teach here. Consideration is not in their vocabulary many times. When I brought it to their attention, they said they understood, turned it back on, but by the next class, they did it again and it became obvious that they were just having a good time pushing my buttons to see who could "control" who. Even the students just get up and turn off the air, or turn it on without asking.

-When I complained that I am constantly being criticized on something they are very ignorant about such as ESL, I was told fine, if you don't want to teach, I can teach without you. At which, when the time came for me to teach my class, the co-teacher kept my students in another classroom and taught them without me.

-I was told that they do not care about the students learning how to speak English. The city wants them to learn how to speak English, but the High Schools only care about high scores on the entrance exams for college. I was told that the schools are very competitive. I was told that the students take two tests, one is in English/Korean and the other one is strictly in Korean. That's another thing, English here is written very poorly even by the banks and the schools who are supposed to be teaching the students English. And the teachers who think they know more than you can't speak or write very well at all. It is amazing when you meet someone who can't speak, can barely write and they announce to you that they have been teaching English Grammar for 20 years. You are just dumbfounded. Then you go to the bank and the ATM has written on the screen, "Thank you for banging with us"...no kidding, I am going to take a picture of that!

-The students study from 7 AM to 1 or 2 AM. So they fall asleep in your class all of the time. If they fall asleep, they are either hit with a stick, made to go to the back of the class and kneel on their knees or stand up. These students are pushed more than anything I have ever seen and the sad thing is that the results are not any better than those of American students. As well, the students go to school all day until 6 PM every other Saturday and throughout the Summer as well. If the students are late arriving to class, they are made to put their hands above their heads and they have their nipples twisted (boys) and my friend who just quit and went home told me that she walked into a class as she saw an 11 year old get slapped very hard across the face by a male teacher. The students are also made to get into a push up stance and stay there for as long as an hour. This is all the time, I see it so much everyday that I am used to it by now. I laughed when I was asked if we discipline like this in America. I said, "You even disrespect a student in some high schools and they will come back that afternoon with an AKA and wipe you and 20 other students out of the classroom. If you touch a student, you will lose your job, your car, your house, your wife and will be lucky if the student lets you live".

-The teachers I work with are miserable beyond belief and have told me that they HATE their jobs. I am told that one teacher was transferred from a Middle School to a High School. She no longer has a nice Summer Vacation or gets off at 4:30 everyday. Now, she works as many as 50-60 hours a week, has maybe 3 days off for vacation during the Summer and only 10 minute breaks between about 6 or 7 classes a day or more. She has misery written on her face from head to toe everyday. She sat in a chair by my desk after I was there for about a month and told me with her head hung down, "EVERYONE loves you. EVERYONE likes you at this school. EVERYONE!" (now, she wears heels, makeup, jewelry and my co-teacher has now given her my new classroom). They don't realize that I feel sorry for them, so I don't gripe. In their minds, they won, they have the control. It is quite appalling how they look at things. I am told, she has no choice if she wants to work at the Middle School or High School, when they transfer you, you go. The other teacher, said he loves computers and if he had to do it all over again, he would have chosen computers. He says, he hates his job and has no choice but to stay a teacher for the rest of his life.

-Teachers are mandated by the Education Board to teach specific material and are held responsible for that material from workbooks chosen (they call them textbooks). They have no choice in what or how they teach. So to make their life easier, they have opted to use the video disk that comes with the workbook. They pop in the disk and walk around the class while a Korean Teacher teaches the class on video. When I was appalled at this method of "not teaching-but being paid to teach" I asked, "if the man on the video teaches the class, what do you do while you are being paid to teach?" I was told, " I must control the students". I laughed. They teach the students the difference between "white lies" and "black lies" and they teach them phrases we never use, are outdated, or almost never heard. They do not care, it's not about learning our culture. On the contrary, they don't want to learn about American culture. They need to learn and teach English for one purpose, going to a good college and making a high score on the entrance exam.

-Since I have arrived: I am constantly asked if I am rich. The entire school knows my pay thanks to the co-teacher, who compared my little 2.1 million Korean Won to their 60.0 million Korean Won pay. I try to explain that they keep comparing apples to oranges and that in America, I would make double if not more than double if I worked full-time and that my apartment here is also paid for and my airfare, settlement allowance, a bonus, etc.... They think we come here for money. Yes, you can save a little money, but it's also about the venture. They don't get that and due to your lack of pay, again, your knocked down another notch.

-I have been chastised for wiring money to America, I have had every aspect of my life analyzed and reanalyzed from my hair, eyes, weight, teeth, how I brush my teeth, what I eat, what I don't eat, how I get to school, what I should eat, how I should teach, how I should not teach, where I should shop, how much I should spend and where, how often I should be going to church, what clothes I should wear, what I should wear, what to do and how to do it constantly, how do I exercise, how I should exercise, where I go, where I should go....on and on and on and on, everyday, throughout the day....one woman came to my apartment and demanded that I re-open my door because she wanted to go inside my apartment and check it out and she made a very big deal out of it too. Unreal!

-I have been told that since their country is giving me a job, I should be spending my money in their country. I get it, I do, but they don't get the fact, that I work for my money and they needed me more than I needed them. This was after explaining that I don't want to buy a blouse for $80 or buy a pair of shoes for $400 when I can buy that stuff for 10% with the same name brand, etc...most of the clothes here and shoes are extremely expensive, for Nine West shoes, $200-$400 as opposed to the ones I can get for $45 a pair in America. The import taxes must be outrageous here!

-If you have something shipped and it is clothes or shoes, look to pay very high taxes in customs. They don't like you buying things from American companies that you can buy here in their country, of course if you are not a size 2 forget it! Oh, and check out, MyUS.com if you are coming here. They have been my life saver!!!!! And, drugstore.com too!!! And for all of your ladies out there who have to have acryllic nails, forget it. Arcyllic nails, if you can find a shop anywhere that knows what you are talking about, cost $80-$150 for a full set. No kidding! Go to: www.sallybeautysupply.com and just buy the packages, have MyUS.com mail it to you and do them yourself.

-I was once asked to write down my password and bank i.d. for my co-teacher (who was grinning while asking me) when I was going to open an online account at the bank.

AND this is very important, in South Korea, the Internet banking is ONLY WITHIN THE COUNTRY, you cannot access your money online to make payments for your bills back home in another country, nor can you leave from here and jump online to access your money to send a payment to another country. Almost all of the banks here do not have other locations outside of Korea, so if you put your money in the bank and leave the country, nine times out of ten, you will be making a flight back here just to get your money. I met a guy on the plane doing just that and I did research on the banks when I arrived.

Go with Kookmin Bank, they have locations in Japan, New York and many other locations in other countries where you can access your money. You can also get a person at this bank who speaks English. My first bank refused to speak English, so they called my co-teacher everytime I wired money or anything I did, he always knew my banking business. I changed to Kookmin Bank and got someone who speaks English at the bank to help me. They have these everywhere in Korea, they are South Korea's largest banks and they have ATMs everywhere, it is only $15 to wire money to America and you can do it from an ATM taken out of your bank account and transferred to any bank as long as you know the SWIFT Code (there is a website that can tell you all the codes of participating banks)

-My Summer Vacation Days were broken up on purpose so that I could not travel home to America for the Summer. I was told that this was done as a punishment because they were mad at me. The contract does not stipulate that you get 10 consecutive vacation days, so yes, they could do it. AND, your contract says that you get 10 calendar days, not 10 working days (which was how most thought, M-F), so your 10 days of vacation includes weekends which you already have off...yes, you can try like I did, to schedule your days strategically to get 12 off, but that does not mean they will give it to you.

-Most if not all of the Korean Teachers and students at your school (high schools), will understand every word of English that you speak. They just can't SPEAK English. So when you are on the phone with your friends or loved ones, just remember two things: Yes, they understand every word you are saying and they are VERY curious people by nature, so they are usually listening. Also, remember that it is possible that since you are working at a government school, it is very possible that they are reading your emails, ims, and watching everything you do on their computers. My adivce, if they allow wireless at your school, bring your own laptop to the school and use it. In China, even the public computers at coffee shops are monitored.

-For Koreans, pride and reputation is everything. For the EPIK Program, you are evaluated at the end of the year. The evaluation includes your health, personality, work habits, etc...it's not like America, there are no privacy laws, equal rights, sexual harassment, etc...there are no standards that are there to essentially protect you, their laws and standards are to benefit them and to protect them...so your evaluation is wide open and can include such things as: if they like you or not and why...and it includes other teacher's opinions on what they think about you...in other words, if you don't like to eat Korean food, and you don't go to the cafeteria everyday, you are seen as not getting along with your co-workers and you do not support the school...remember also, you need a 70 score minimum to continue working for EPIK or any other public institution and once they have learned that you have worked in Korea previously, they will ask for the name of the school and your coo-teacher and they will call them to find out everything from your weight to how you brush your teeth, there are no laws here like America.

-Most Koreans think that all American's are rich. I mean, RICH. They EXPECT you to be rich. Due to feeling inferior to you, they will apologize that their car is not very nice, they will brag about their Louis Vuitton, or they will make a big deal if you have a Guess purse.

-They like blondes, TRUE BLONDES. If you bleach your hair, and they find out or you tell them you are not a true blonde, your character and the attention given to you just diminished big time and you are seen as a fake, not trustworthy and have no creditability. You will just get knocked down about 8 notches. No lie, I have seen this happen to my friend who just skipped the country with her boyfriend.

-You cannot wear clothes that show your arms, no sleeveless dresses or blouses, tanks or low cut blouses, not even a hint that you actually have breasts. Shorts and skirts are not worn above the knee and if you wear something like that, you are looked at like a whore. Oh, and no red nails either. Red is a sign to show that you are "loose" and ready to play! During the winter, sandals are worn with socks, even in the Summer, sandals can be seen worn with those stockings which were originally made to wear with close toe shoes such as tennis shoes, etc...

-binkins at the beach, ha! well, let's just say that any skin showing is not allowed and you will be stared at for sure and it will again, knock your character down a couple of notches, not acceptable for a respected teacher, you are expected to wear and act conservatively.

-there is no tipping. do not tip the cab drivers or your pizza man. On the positive side, I just had a pizza delivered with fries and a coke for $7. I take a taxi to work everyday for $2.20.

-the restaurant might advertise Italian, but it will be some Italian served with Korean Kimchi. Same with restaurants that claim to be Mexican. You might get mexican hot sauce but the rest is Korean Food. You will see VERY FEW if ANY Americans.

-speaking of food, YES, they do still eat dogs here. A LOT. Everyday. And they think nothing of it. Bring it up and they will quickly give you an attitude and remind you that you eat cow. Again, remember the evaluation and your ability to accept their culture. One comment can be many points taken away at evaluation time if they do not like you or did not like the fact that as an American, you did not agree with their culture to eat dogs. They claim it is a special kind of dog. My advice to you, do your homework. Dog meat on the black market can go for as much as $250. Cruelty to large dogs and cages filled with more than enough to fit, are very common in the markets. Dog farms are everywhere in the rural areas and although this has been outlawed, the Koreans will tell you that you are wrong. 9 students in one day raised their hands to tell me that they had just eaten dog soup the day before class and were proud. Torturing of these animals is very, very common, don't let them tell you otherwise. Eating meat is one thing, torturing anything or anyone is not acceptable by any country's standards and should apply here too. And no, I am not in a countryside, I am located in a small city.

-small dogs have small faces. In Korea, if you are pretty, they will tell you that you have a small face. Thus, they don't eat the dogs with the small faces. I have an old Lab. Depending who you talk to, he is either a big dog or has a small face. Yeah, I left in America. I wasn't even chancing it!

-the teachers will talk behind your back and by nature these can be very jealous people, especially when you are only teaching 20 hours of classes and surfing the web all day and they are teaching 45-50 hours of classes easily and have no choice to switch jobs or have nice vacations, YOU can be a problem for THEM. I had one teacher who went and told my students that I said they speak poor English (no lie). I was wondering why the students were coming into the classroom looking at me with pure disgust after a week of screaming in the hallways how much they loved me. This also happened to two other friends of mine. So jealousy is very common and to combat that, it is common for them to talk behind your back.

-I wanted to buy my class pizza, I was told that it was against the rules and this was after 2 weeks of the students thinking that they were going to have pizza.

-READ experiences on the Internet. I have met two other people who taught here before who all had 3 bad, very bad, experiences. I met a man here in a coffee shop who sat down with me and my friend and told us his horror story from being fired to being told that he would not get paid for his several last days of teaching (and this was a man in his 50s who told me he had little to no money to get a plane ticket back home because he failed to save his money), and so on...I have met so many who say that their recruiter lied to them (I am one too). They will lead you to believe that you will make a lot more money than you will make (I was told that I would probably get 2.7 and I got 2.1). You will think you are going to a nice city and it turns out it is a small place where there are many traditional people who think we are still living in the 60s.

-If you have been to a beach along the coasts of California, Florida or exotic places, forget beautiful beaches in Korea. The sand is brown, the water is not blue. It is very dirty and the people are fully dressed at the beach if not overdressed. You will feel very out of place. Even shorts above the knee are not accepted by most, ESPECIALLY if you are a teacher.

-In four months of being here, one guy quit and went home to New Zealand, a couple just quit and did not tell anyone they were quitting and went back to Canada, a girl I know told me in her first 2 weeks that if it were not for her boyfriend working here, she would have already quit and went home, one girl was chastised because of her tight t-shirt, I have been told to buy a pair of slippers and not to wear heels to school (and no, I was not wearing stilettos). No one out of about 10 people are staying and some of them already went home. I considered it too, but decided to try to make it and start looking at other countries to teach in or transferring to a big city like Seoul (something I NEVER thought I would hear myself saying) if I get at least a 70. I was told that I am a very good teacher, but that my co-teacher does not like my personality. Well, ha ha....I have news for them, they are not exactly the best people that I have ever worked with but things are changing. I am now gettining a workbook like them with a fancy disk and life will be a lot easier for me teaching because it is what they find acceptable. My teacher would stare at my lesson plans, then ask me how many "hours" it took me to make them...I laughed and said, "Uh, 30 minutes. There are tons of lesson plan all of the Internet". I asked if he liked it, if it was good and he said, "Yes. They are very good". So much for creating your own lesson plans when you work with people who automatically inferior to you.

-Oh, and by the way, privatge tutoring or English Conversation goes for $40 an hour. I have met numerous Koreans who play the game of, "we know you are not supposed to teach on the side for money" and "I just want to be your friend and go for coffee and have conversation". The next thing you know, they want to buy you dinner, start inviting their friends and you catch them on the phone calling you their "teacher" although they are telling you that you are a good friend...essentially, not only are they spending $4-$25 for 5 hours of English Conversation that usually costs $200 for the same amount of time, and they are bragging to all of their friend that they have a private tutor for dirt cheap, they start bringing with them at the last minute, their friends, nieces and nephews, who end up spending 5 hours or more with you because they just "wanted to meet you". Again, it's called a SCAM. Forget it. It is not worth it because next thing you know, they are banging on your door, calling you every week and it becomes a set thing every Thursday and Sunday.

-There is no incentive within the country for Koreans to learn how to speak English. Nothing here is spoken in English. Most writing, signs, bank information, bankers, etc...is only in English. I told them how can they expect me to do business here if they cannot speak my language and I can't speak theirs. Yet, they will lecture the high school students that we are a global world now and that in order to communicate, you need to learn English.

-If you come here, just remember that no matter how modern it might look in some areas, or how some young people dress, teachers are expected to dress and act conservatively, you are EXPECTED to do many things and they use the English Language with their culture, so they usually don't mean to offend you when they come across with an attitude while they are also telling you that you "MUST" or that they 'EXPECT' many Koreans are overworked just like the students...wouldn't you be in a bad mood too if your job sucked and you couldn't do anything about it for the rest of your life?

There are many, many WONDERFUL things about Korea and the people, but sometimes, when you go through all of this and more, it is hard to see the good. I cling to the snippets of good things like the fresh cheap flowers, cheap pizza delivered, CNN Asia, movies in English shown with Asian subtitles, cheap transit, nice mountains, good food, customer service that is out of this world, Everland is NICE, not very much traffic outside of Seoul, the art exhibits and wonderful events in Jeonju, Seoul and other areas such as the International Film Festival, and more! And the currency exchange is getting better! My apartment was brand new, had a brand new bed, microwave, washing machine, and heated floors. I have met many nice people from New Zealand, Canada and America. There are a few coffee shops that are AWESOME, Lotte Mart is great, the malls are cool, and all in all, I truly believe that regardless of control, manipulation and pride that most Koreans can be thoughtful, good-hearted and smart. Their food may be strange, but their healthcare is cheap, their medicine is reasonable and you don't see people lined up in the emergency rooms like you do in the states. I went to the emergency room and it took me 15 minutes from signing in to walking out and cost me $8 with my National Insurance Plan and $8 for my medicine for a sore throat. You can't beat that! Seafood is everywhere and home grown vegetables and fruit are extremely fresh and found everywhere!!!!! Starbucks is in every town either via a store located in a mall or individual coffees sold in the Lotte Mart and Emart and small grocery stores.

LOL!

The original post never mentioned anything about being white. I think you are just looking for an issue to polarize, rather then deal with the facts.........typical of an apologist. But, I guess I should not throw that out there as of yet. Honestly, I don't care. Though, I do think it is good to see someone, in their own way, defending China. They need all the help they can get.

Newbies, do your research on ANY school. Ask as many questions as you can. Request contact information of at least three teachers currently working there (NOT from a DoS or Senior Teacher) and possibly a few teachers that worked at the school in the past.

Schools in China and Korea are counting on you NOT being inquisitive. Which unfortunatley, many are not.

There are much better markets/opportunities out there.

eslguy

Newbies,

Just search any major ESL forum and you will find many reasons NOT to teach in China and Korea. Not only are those people NOT to be trusted, but they do not have a clue as to how English as a Second Language should be taught. Granted, there are a few success stories out there. But, it is not the norm. Most people who claim to have a good experience are those who allow themselves to be treated as a doormat, drowning away their sorrows at the bar after work. For those who have an idea of what they are doing and have a passion for the job, they are usually the ones who end up leaving....mainly because they can't deal with backwards, intolerant and ignorant mindset of their environment.

The only way to make a statement is to keep spreading the word and making sure that newbies (the ones who really care about themselves and what they do) are aware of what they are getting into.

eslguy

[Edited by Administrator (admin) Sat, 14 May 2011, 03:43 AM]