gorucho
- 2009-12-23
supppppper cat. you hit the nail on the head. no more or less. love to have poor student than those so called new century rich??
how they got rich ???
groucho
- 2009-12-23
well it said enough about what ever. we are eveil since day one, because we made them rich and chinese in the same time.
they call them selves back home in the USA chinese-amrican. wow. there is only white who are american the rest is so------ american. i do not know what is the difference? being simple american or add the siffix of some kind of country. so we white as the call us honky, red neck and so forth. we are the low life in any prospect of life. while we give more than take.
have a beer, next day is another day. thanks all merry Christmas and happy new year.
Supercat
- 2009-12-22
I will agree that some foreigners who come to China are looked down upon as losers from the West. On the other hand, many of the Chinese are also jealous of us laowai, generally speaking we are often much smarter, more open minded, and mostly wealthier than they are.
As for laowai DOS at training centres in China, they really are a bunch of losers, they are weak and powerless in the West, being a DOS in China is the only way they can have any "status" and a feeling of power in their lives. Thank goodness that there are no foreign DOS at public universities in China. Public universities and high schools are the only places worth working at in China.
As for all the DOS in China, I just wish these low-life scumbags would return to their Pizza Hut and Wal-Mart jobs back home. I have heard Turnoi, Silverboy and Turino refer to them as "grovelling weasels" in the past, a good description, but I would go one step further and say that DOS's in China are nothing more than "a conga line of suckholes."
DOS, TA's, China school "presidents" and "CEO's" they are just the lowest crap and scum, the people on other ESL sites who support these criminals are just as bad.
You know who you are, eg: RD and DS!
englishgibson
- 2009-12-22
juanisaac has mentioned educational differences and they are a root to the problem with the chinese viewing westerners as some "evil arrogant" characters that should be avoided.
and, when they think you're from outerspace, they find their labels for you as well. if the "evil arrogant" suits them, you get it. following on that quote of juanisaac, i dare to say that the "rote memorization" in this country's education is to keep all the youth on one RIGHT TRACK and with ONE VIEW on the world, and if any changes in the chinese education were to happen that'd be the end of the red party rule on mainland. can you just imagine if the local education encouraged the independant thinking, debates on controvesial issues etc? can you imagine if they opened these kids minds rather than coded them?The methodologies we use in the West such as argumentation, asking question, debates, multi-sensual techniques leave the Chinese system of rote memorization in the dust. The teachers here and my students think I came from outerspace.
however, and sadly enough, i am not even allowed to use mr. hu jin tao's name or discussions about him in my classrooms. some chinese kids amazingly don't even know where he really comes from, where he has worked before or what his major is. on the other hand, they know more about mr obama and his whole family. how could i possibly believe this 5,000 years old culture?
quite agreeably, we are the evil arrogant foreigners as we are open to discussions on much larger varieties of topics and objectively and then we are prepared to deal with varieties of views on these topics as well.
cheers and beers to the evil arrogant foreigners that are much better educated even with just a middle school "degrees" :)
Percy Lightfoot
- 2009-12-21
The educated Chinese and the Chinese upper classes tend to treat the have-nots badly, and think nothing of it - a feudal culture that is still part of the Chinese 'culture',preserved from generation to generation. Many Chinese middle and upper class regard foreigners who come to China as losers from the West. So, we are expected to toe the line here as regards all aspects of their culture and customs. But what has surprised me here is to see the Japanese treated much better than Westerners, and allowed more individualism, as a rule. But I think the VIP treatment they receive is insincere - it's all about the Chinese people of substance not wishing to lose face - something that many a foreigner doesn't put to the fore!
Supercat
- 2009-12-21
I would have to agree with what you wrote juanissac. I do not understand why people in China and other Asian countries have to treat service industry workers like garbage. I can also understand a fair bit of Putonghua and I am also often appalled by the abuse that these often kind and hardworking people must endure.
I know that bullying and abuse also takes place is the West, but not to anything like the same extent as in China. You are right, you hardly ever hear anyone say "thank you", "excuse me", "can I please have". I have heard some totally ridiculous arguments at supermarkets, banks, and restaurants in China, people yelling at shop assistants and bank tellers, complaining about the most trivial things.
Culture is not an excuse for this behaviour, but I am sure somebody will post a message here trying to make an excuse for such behaviour on the basis of "cultural differences". The Chinese definitely need training to improve their poor social skills and they need to learn about good manners and the importance of compassion and sharing.
As far as education goes you are also right, the Chinese continue to focus on rote learning techniques. They have much to learn from Westerners in regard to education, but they will not listen, they are much to stubborn and arrogant to think that they can learn anything from us.
I can't see the situation changing anytime soon. Will the Chinese change their ways eventually? No, they are stuck in a timewarp, and will ( mostly ) continue to remain backward in comparison to the West in my opinion.
juanisaac
- 2009-12-21
You are so right in your assertions. Foreigners stand out so much that whatever they do is amplified. However, for a few that are arrogant the rest of us treat the Chinese with respect from the highest to the poorest. At the local KFC in town I clean up my own tray and everyone thinks I am strange. I say "excuse me, "thank you" and everyone is surprised. From my experiences the Chinese are the proud arrogant ones that treat the others Chinese like crap. Westerners are a little louder, but they are more tactful. Whenever I go to a restaurant with some Chinese they treat there servers badly. I do not undertstand all the Chinese used, but enough to know what mistreatment is.
As to education, China does not impress me. The methodologies we use in the West such as argumentation, asking question, debates, multi-sensual techniques leave the Chinese system of rote memorization in the dust. The teachers here and my students think I came from outerspace. In the USA I worked as Teacher's Assistant in an ESL program so I am not completely lost in the classroom. I prefer to spend time with the regular people out in town. After a few beers we are all speaking the same language.
englishgibson
- 2009-12-21
i believe that the prejudice plays a major role in many chinese minds when they are "judging" foreigners. often they know little about most of the foreign countries as their education is fairly limited in that sense. social sciences aren't taught and dare i say aren't allowed to be taught on mainland. international schools have to "hide" the subject's name under a variety of names such as communication skills etc which brings me to our OP's quote below
that's where the trouble comes from. in china, i've been charged by a few locals that I AM TOO DIRECT and so i am rude. my observation is that chinese mostly send and do everything they can to send only positive messages when communicating. virtually any negativity is considered for arrogant and/or disrespectful. then, constructive criticizm is not acceptable at work most of the time and especially with superiors just about anywhere in china. imagine how many of us are "guilty" of the above mentioned.communication styles (West: Speaker must make clear their message / East: Listener must discern the meaning of the message even if it is not stated)
the question really raises out of this; should we change when working in china? my answer would be NO for the ones that teach english and especially social sciences or as my company's head office calls it "communication skills" to just confuse the hell out of the local educational officals that little idea what i am really teaching. the reason being is that if the locals want to learn another language such as english, then they should follow the culture of the language as well. in other words, they should accept the way we "communicate". however, if we come to help them build their nuclear power plants, or open foreign branches of shops etc, then my answer to the above question would be YES for our behavioural adjustment with regards to communcations.
cheers and beers to the chinese that've been forced to store 1000s of english words in their heads without being told what to do with them as well as cheers and beers to their chinglish teachers that keep on teaching how EVIL and ARROGANT FOREIGNERS are
Supercat
- 2009-12-20
I gave up caring about what the Chinese think long ago, half the time they just speak a lot of rubbish anyway, at least in the education sector.
If the Chinese think that we are "evil and arrogant" I don't really give a stuff, many of them ARE evil and arrogant! However there are some really kind and sometimes extremely generous Chinese people, but it is usually the average working class Chinese who I like the most.
The so-called "educated" or "intellectual" classes in China don't impress me much, mostly a bunch of ignorant and spoilt self serving wankers!
Found this on another discussion board and though others might find it interesting:
I don't know why this irrational characterization of foreign teachers irritates me but I recently saw a posting from a school in China, looking for foreign teachers, with the following quote as what we always 'complain about' the most:
"We do not do that in my country!" to which I am sure schools would like (but do not dare) to reply "But this is not your country and that is how we work here!"
They then go on to portray all, or most, foreign teachers as lazy, foul-tempered drunks. While I have met some that fit in that category, we are not all like that. In fact, I would say the characterization is for the minority. In addition, the stereotype could go both ways to characterize any individual, regardless of where they were born.
What always amazes me, and goes right to the heart of their assumption about our statement, is that the complaints are not about any sort of cultural eccentricities which are usually worked around...things such as communication styles (West: Speaker must make clear their message / East: Listener must discern the meaning of the message even if it is not stated), eating habits, etc. What brings on the oft heard complaint from foreign teachers is because of much broader and more damaging issues such as:
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Not sure if I can put the whole thing here since it may cause some to get upset but you can see the whole text using the link below.