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#1 Parent Chengdu FT - 2009-12-31
Re: Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

I agree with comments on EF! They have a really bad reputation in China.
Like the others have said, you will have a difficult time recruiting white monkeys.

Linguaphone and WSI I have never heard of.

If you are looking at opening a kids schools, I would look Joy English.

I have worked there part time for a year and their material for kids is pretty good.
They have material from about 5 years to 15.

More importantly they have a management system that seems to work pretty well.

The school seems to run itself.

There are a few issues with the boss, but you never see the guy.

As far as places go in China, it has actually been a decent experience.

You will need about .5 to 1 million to open a business.

Also starting a kids school is hard work. Don't expect to make much if any money the first year. But as long as you do a good job your students (at least some of them) will stay loyal.

For example in one class I teach, most of the kids have been studying with the same school for over five years.

Just my two cents worth.

#2 Parent englishgibson - 2009-12-26
Re: Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

in response to the last post that i agree and disagree with, i've got to set the record straight a bit. the chinese market is large and on rather slippery grounds that foreigners might never be able to cope with, especially in educational field. for the sake of all readers on this topic, i'll reply to some of the most recent post's quotes below

I always thought Linguaphone was a snobbish, superior place with far to high an opinion of itself and it's way of teaching. The school itself charges a ton of money, which is likely part of why it went out of business. The way people taught there was also a joke, and their so called "system" with which they used to teach was stagnant, and didn't teach much of anything. If you're paying 10 or 15 thousand a year Chinese yuan to learn English, it had better be damn good teaching. Sadly the teaching quality did not measure up to the money they charged students. They also had inept management, which certainly did not help.
many private schools charge "a ton of money" around and EF or Web aren't any exeptions in either sense, the fees or their teaching's got to be at least as stagnant as the one in linguaphone if not more..just look at their poor management and employee turnover. and the quality of teachers isn't any different at either of them. the teaching quality you have mentioned depends on THE MANAGEMENT. that's where it all begins with recruiting, training and then providing academic support or teacher workshops. TO SUM UP THIS, MOST OF THE CENTERS UNDDER THESE FRANCHISES ARE RUN BY THE CHINESE NATIONALS DUE TO DECENTRALIZING OF INTERNATIONAL BUSINESSES. THE DECENTRALIZING COMES WITH AN EFFORT TO ENLARGE, EXPEND OR SHALL I SAY TO GLOBALIZE. THE ENEPT MANAGEMENT YOU ARE REFERING TO IS JUST A PART OF THE GLOBALIZATION PROCESS IN CHINA. HOW CAN YOU FILL IN THESE POSITIONS WITH LOCALS THAT ARE UNDEREDUCATED AS WELL AS BRAINWASHED? AND HOW CAN THESE KINDA POSSIBLY RECRUIT ANY FOREIGN WORKFORCE AND THEN EVALUATE THEM ON REGULAR BASIS? :)
The worst schools tend to pay the worst, and work their teachers the most. Linguaphone was well known for this, having teachers work 40 hours a week, and not paying nearly what they should have been. All they ended up getting for the most part were recent college grads who had no teaching experience, but they were native speakers ;)
i don't quite agree as from my very recent experience, i got more than others, although at a really shitty establishment. well, i know for fact that if they offered me less on the beginning (they knew), i wouldn't take it. and, now, i wish i didn't. moreover, my former really dull (foreign) coworker, that i once worked with in nanning guanxi, got paid relatively well at the nanning linguaphone as the clueless manager/owner there had no idea how to run that center. mind you, he was recruited by THAT CLUELESS OWNER/MANAGER THERE. this also proves my point that it all begins at the ownership and management levels and so blaming the teachers or foreign academic directors for either their poor performances or qualifications is not justifiable.

Whatever you do, be original, offer simple teaching methods, not special systems, and hire good people and pay them well. Knowing how to run a business might also be a good idea.

Too many foreigners want to open English schools in China, thin king that, because of all the so called demand and talk about how much money there is in it that they'll make a fortune. Doesn't work that way, believe me. You have to know what you are doing, you have to be a good business man, and you can not be corrupt or corruptable. Also helps to know something about education. Those of you who think you can just come here, pitch a tent that says "English lessons" and think the money will come rolling in, think again.

with all due respect, i would NOT follow this advice. believe me, whatever you do, you're an evil foreigner that, in the minds of locals and especially their officials, wants to MAKE CHANGES IN CHINA AND TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF THE COUNTRY. MOST IMPORTANTLY, IN CHINA, IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY CONNECTIONS OR DO NOT PAY TO HAVE THEM, YOU WILL BE LEFT OUT TO DRY. just look at some really farce chinese businesses have they've got their clients and how they've grown. then, you'll see what i mean here.

cheers and beers to our investments either in china or elsewhere as well as cheers and beers to our points of views on the topic

#3 Parent nglish teaching isn't as - 2009-12-26
Re: Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

English teaching isn't as profitable as it once was in China, since everyone and their mother has opened up a school. There is a lot of competition, hence buying into an already established chain might be the way to go. Only problem is, yeah, Linguaphone is gone.

I always thought Linguaphone was a snobbish, superior place with far to high an opinion of itself and it's way of teaching. The school itself charges a ton of money, which is likely part of why it went out of business. The way people taught there was also a joke, and their so called "system" with which they used to teach was stagnant, and didn't teach much of anything. If you're paying 10 or 15 thousand a year Chinese yuan to learn English, it had better be damn good teaching. Sadly the teaching quality did not measure up to the money they charged students. They also had inept management, which certainly did not help.

You might want to think about launching your own school. There are a number of foreigners who have done so with great success. The ones I know who have done this sadly are bigger cheats and con men than the majority of school owners, go figure. Seems to me that the foreigners who come here and have real success in this area almost always end up being woefully dishonest.

Anyhow, good luck in your endeavor. There is a lot of competition out there, your best bet, if you do it, is to hire foreigners who can actually teach, and pay them very good money. The worst schools tend to pay the worst, and work their teachers the most. Linguaphone was well known for this, having teachers work 40 hours a week, and not paying nearly what they should have been. All they ended up getting for the most part were recent college grads who had no teaching experience, but they were native speakers ;)

I'd avoid even thinking about buying into EF, you'll never get the staff you need, as few quality teachers would ever work for that outfit. They literally have the worst rep in Wuhan. Even if you open a branch and run it different, that place has such a bad rep, you won't be able to convince too many people that you're different.

Whatever you do, be original, offer simple teaching methods, not special systems, and hire good people and pay them well. Knowing how to run a business might also be a good idea.

Too many foreigners want to open English schools in China, thin king that, because of all the so called demand and talk about how much money there is in it that they'll make a fortune. Doesn't work that way, believe me. You have to know what you are doing, you have to be a good business man, and you can not be corrupt or corruptable. Also helps to know something about education. Those of you who think you can just come here, pitch a tent that says "English lessons" and think the money will come rolling in, think again.

The recent demise of certain schools like Kaien and Linguaphone should tel people something about just how hard it is here. Schools too often incur overhead they can not afford in their attempts to grow and be flashy, and in the end it bites them in the ass. Know how to run a business.

There are a lot of boobs in China who have started schools and made tons of money, and in the past, even boobs could do this. Not anymore, the market has become far too competitive to allow that. You have to know what you are doing, have a solid plan, and even than, there are no guarantees, like there might have been say, 20 years ago.

Hope this has been of help, good bye.

#4 Parent Turino - 2009-12-24
Re: Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

Another informative and honest post from your good self, englishgibson. You have given us all an insight into the dishonest way that many EFL training centers in China go about their business. Thank you for having done that. It's great that you've become a regular poster on this board. Have a super festive season, and let's all hope you can snag a good teaching position here in China in the near future.
Of course, I shouldn't sign off before wishing all of my fellow readers a merry Christmas and a happy New Year too, even those who do not always see eye to eye with me. And let's not forget those working for ESLTB - without the board itself, there wouldn't be a platform for all of us to express ourselves re EFL/ESL in the first place or gain useful knowledge from other posters.

#5 Parent englishgibson - 2009-12-24
Re: Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

KH, I suppose you're a Chinese but forgive me to assume that.

If so, you'd need a couple million yuan to kickstart your EF center as, to my knowledge, that's been most of the time the inititial fee before the grand opening day. Then, you'd have to deal with the headless offices in Shanghai and over seas where they cook and burn their plans for their EF operations. Relying on their recruiting system will also cost you somewhere in between 2,000-5,000 yuan per teacher or a DoS. Once, I was an EF DoS myself. As your EF center'll run, or run into difficulties, you'll be obligated to pay royalty fees per student at..i believe 8 %. You'll sure be able to cheat as many do and provide lower numbers to the, again, headless offices. However, you should know that EFs have a bad rap with foreign teachers especially as the working environment in many of the franchised centers is rather poor and unpro, so most likely you'll be able to hire only some high school dropouts from English speaking or none English speaking countries and mind you, you'll have to work heard to keep your team together. As for the Linguaphone, I would touch it, if I were either a Chinese of a foreigner. This franchise's getting a bad rap due to the mentioned closures of centers and that'll sure reflect on your sales, or shall i say student recruitement.

If you're not a Chinese national, then as a foreigner you'd need a local to help you with the licensing and some other issues. Chinese government controls its education if it's public or private. Foreigners aren't welcome to place their values on the peoples childrens' minds. Recent local regulations call for the Chinese principal as well as the Academic Manager/Director and both of these positions have to have at least 5 years of experience (proven and local). However, many schools/centers cheat and fill in their license applications fictitious individuals that never work or will work with them. That's China and its law/regulations enforcements. In the case that you are a foreigner, I would NOT open a school, unless it's a soccer school. As I have said the local gov officials are keen on what/who is around them and if you are "white", you'll be the center of attention.

I hope I have helped with my suggestions and maybe saved you a trouble or a financial loss.

Cheers and beers to the 5,000 or so years old country that hasn't changed much except that it's color is different :)

KH - 2009-12-23
Is Linguaphone classroom based courses as good/effective as those at EF or WSI?

Hi,

I hope to start a small English language school in china, and am researching franchise opportunity with EF, WSI and Linguaphone. Have anyone work for these firms? Would appreciate your thought on these 3 schools' teaching method, teaching material and their effectiveness. What is the key success factors of operating an English school in China?

Oh, why did Linguaphone go out of business in China 2 months ago? Isn't it a big UK firm and has long history?

Thanks for your insight!

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