HI Realist,

Well I have never been to China and so nothing of your gripes are known to me. I've been 'lucky,' enough to teach only in central Europe, and can I be honest? From what I have seeen it is the teachers who throw their falsehoods to the sky not the schools. Its my opinion.

Dear Mr Taylor:

Well, I have never taught in central Europe, and so nothing of your gripes is known to me. I've been lucky enough to teach only in China. And can I be honest? From what I have seen, it is the employers who throw their falsehoods to the sky, not the teachers. It's my (dimetrically opposite) opinion...LOL!

Ben, I don't know where you are and/or where your experience comes from, so my comment here pertains China and its employers.

Some Chinese employers have participated on forums discussions and often they've failed to objectively produce evidence their schools/center are worth to work in and then they've also emarrassed themselves when it came down to accept the constructive criticizm of their poor establishements. Further more, some foreigners acting on their behalf have also been around and may I say how lovely these conversations have been on. You sure could tell a difference in between a potato and a tomato. :)

On the solely employers' forums that you have inquired about too, I do not have a knowledge of really, however, if you'd work for a large franchised operations your employer might have a chance to participate on such forums. And, may I say that these kinda forums on mainland China are just so vicious and vendictive against any ft that has dared to criticize the employer. In China, loyalty to the employer is the number one factor why the employee gets or keeps his/her job. Any skills, experience or education are just secondary. By the way, as a Director of Studies, I had a chance to use EF intranet as well as their DoS communication channel that was always WATCHED STRICTLY by the franchisor's authorities such as the Chinese IT personal as well as the Academic Operations Manager (a scam foreigner). Little could get out, if you know what I mean. But I don't suppose the EF employers had the same kinda treatment for the farce franchisor.

Out of China, there are countries similar to what I have described above, but mostly you'll see such practices in Asia as in EU or North America the free flow of info is so much more encouraged by all. There attempts of any coverups are not as easy as, say for example in China.

Having said all that, however, I must say that I agree with what you have indicated with regards to some unpro or poorly behaved fts around. My observation is that these individuals have either gone through a lot of injustice which makes them vulnerable and you may see that in their frustration on or they've just not deserved the job at all. Mind you that some employers hire whoever comes from abroad and that doesn't help, does it? Paying less an undereducated foreigner without any experience and then take chances seems to be just much better choice for some local employers in China. Imagine what their employment offers and their contractual agreeements are like and then have a good look at their HR that could not tell a difference in between a hot dog seller from Jarvis/Carlton Streets corner or a corporate lawyer from 55 King Street West in Toronto, Canada. So, how can they hire the right people in China? Then, do they dare to complain about the quality of fts?

Another issue is that a number of Chinese employers is just so dull. They've got either no experience or education in the field, although the authorities issue business licenses as long as payments are submitted. Chinese business license applications are ridiculous and the names on sometimes do not correspond with the actual people involved in the business. How could you get such people to see things objectively and how could they possibly "communicate" on topics related to the business and/or its employees?

Oh gosh, I hope I am not far off the topic, am I?

Cheers and beers to forums

Well Ben, considering that most Chinese school employers know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about education and they have no morals and ethics, only care about money, they have NO RIGHT to come on to boards like this and complain about foreigners.

Chinese EFL employers and recruiters should start to learn how to tell the truth for once in their lives, instead luring foreigners to China with lies and false promises!

Get a life!