Scam Revealer
- 2010-03-01
Turnoi is mistaken, it's that simple. I've read a lot of this persons post, they seem to have a bit of an elitist attitude, and arrogant streak running through most of what they write. Turnois posts are indeed helpful, but often times tainted with what seems a kind of high and mighty attitude.
Firstly, you can not blame a teacher for where they work, just as you can't blame someone for who their mother or father is.
Indeed, in some cases teachers who take jobs at training centers like EF do so because they can do no better. However, in most cases I think it is just a total lack of education on the esl industry, basically ignorance. That does not a bad teacher make. Lots of foreigners come here to China having never taught here before, but are often quite qualified. Therefore, to say that "I would never hire anyone who had worked for EF" is rather elitist and pretentious sounding to me.
I'd be careful about making blanket statements about a group of people if I were you. Many a good teacher has been snared by such places. Me thinks that this Turnoi fellows head has swelled to larger than normal proportions, as he prattles on about his "school" and how he would never " hire anyone who had worked for such places". A more arrogant statement I have not heard.
Turnoi, you need to reflect some o
Judge people on their individual merits, not so much on where they have worked. If EF or some other terrible training center was their "first" job, than it is hard to label them "Not worth hiring" when it is much more likely they went to work their out of sheer ignorance. You've gone over board on this one Turnoi, and your inability to admit your stumble only shows how arrogant you have become. take a step back, and reevaluate your words. They are more than a bit irrationale and unreasonable.
helmut wingnut
- 2010-02-28
Hello Turnoi:
Let's continue this debate.
You said:
I would not say that I do blame a "teacher" if I say I won't employ someone having worked for EF or similar place at my school.
If you don't make any exceptions, no matter what the qualifications (I have a friend who has all the qualifications you're looking for and also worked in a private school) than you are punishing the teachers for having worked for private schools.
you wrote:
I can't accept this as a logical argument. You say your problem is with the "system" the schools use, and then that "system" is that they hire crappy teachers. Hence the problem with anyone whose worked for EF or Aston is that they are automatically crappy teachers because they've been hired by EF or Aston.I have tried to point out that this is a system question. And the truth is that the system of crappy training centres like EF or other similar places is that they employ teachers, many or some of whom would not be employable somewhere else
But I for one have both and worked for three private schools. You might at some point recognize that in addition to saying most or all of these schools are "crappy" and, I'm not sure if it was you or Torino who said they private school students are spoiled brats, but you are also saying I am a crappy teacher and you wouldn't hire me. I haven't taken particular offense to this, but I have registered it. Further, we aren't talking about universities in Europe, but rather universities in China, and they definitely do hire people that are not really qualified to teach English, spoken or otherwise.I do not know of any public school or college or uni in Europe that employ English teachers, native speakers or not, that would employ someone with for example a CELTA and with or without a degree.
You wrote:
This is false. I was required to take a grammar exam, have several grammar quizzes, and give my own presentation on an aspect of grammar.Another point is that most of those "teachers" graduating from a 4 week CELTA (or another) 4 week intensive course know nothing about English grammar and even do not know the most basic rules nor the appropriate technical terminology to explain their points.
In most instances in China the students wouldn't understand the answer to such a question, nor would it be particularly relevant. However, of course one wouldn't have someone teach "linguistics" if they had no background in it.As a teacher, how do you explain to a student, for example, the fact that there are so many discrepancies between actual pronunciation and spelling in English? You can't explain if you have no knowledge of English grammar, Linguistics, and the history of English?
If a private training centre wants to teach some Chinese housewives to order a cup of tea in central London, then it may perhaps do its job. When it come up to teach a course in Academic Writing, it is more doubtful that a training centre could provide quality educational standards
While private schools may hire under-qualified teachers, they do formally require a BA and a teaching certificate, so let's not reduce all teachers to the lowest common denominator. And If the housewives also wanted to run a business, travel, interact with people in an English speaking country, participate in the culture on a meaningful level, and be able to understand news programs you are right that private schools are equipped to provide that. If a younger student merely wants to be at the top of his class in spoken English, and be able to have conversations and debates about significant issues, you are also correct that a private school can provide that. As for academic writing, I don't know of any private schools that offer courses in that. I agree that teachers without bachelor's degrees would not be appropriate candidates to teach such courses. They also shouldn't teach chemistry or economics.
But, again, we're talking about teaching English in China. Do you really expect someone with a BA or MA (my university will only hire people with MAs) in applied linguistics, or what have you, plus 2 or more years of teaching experience (excluding working for private schools which would disqualify one from employment possibilities) would or should want to teach in China for a very low salary, where there is a good chance they will also be screwed over a bit (more stories are cropping up of teachers paying for their own visas, physical exams, losing their vacation pay, teaching increasing hours).
Among the real candidates that real schools in China get, I still think someone whose worked in private schools, even if it's only to teach students to use English effectively in everyday situations, business environments, and for all practical purposes (but excluding classes in language theory or thesis writing) has an advantage over someone without that experience.
But we're not going to agree on this. I'm also not going to agree about the rich brats, the housewives (rather derogatory towards Chinese women), or the "crappy" school stuff. I prefer to live in reality.