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#1 Parent Weasel - 2010-03-21
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

Thanks for the information,Smitty. In my 'area', an up-to-1-year zero entry L would cost me 160 Yuan. Guess it depends on your 'area', and also your nationality.
As my Chinese wife and I have been living in seven provinces over the past 10 years since our marriage, I guess I wouldn't qualify for a residence permit. So, I needn't waste my time seeking one. No matter I'm still behind the Great Wall, just like you. Sometimes I think I'm on the wrong side of it, but then my better half assures me I'm wrong. Of course, I must go along with her point of view to keep her sweet!

#2 Parent Smitty - 2010-03-21
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

In my area after 5-years it is the same as the one for 10-years. 1,500 RMB. Compared to a 1-year which is 940 RMB so it is not a big deal and I am allowed to work on this status as it is perm residence status specifically for living, taking care of my family, etc. I am told this changes from place-to-place though. For example in my case I had to live in my city for 5-years day-for-day for at least 9-months out of each year while being married to a PRC national, which I did. Now this time...I have the PRC ID card which looks almost exactly the same as the typical PRC national ID card so I guess this is my green card. In fact I flew from Kunming to Beijing using this the other day and I had no problem getting my ticket, clearing security, etc. I was also told, and I have it in writing, with a PRC chop, seal, etc., that I do not need to carry my passport and I no longer need a visa to live and work in China. I use the same ID at the bank, etc. Again, no problem. Combined with this, and the fact that I can read, write and speak Chinese, I guess I am on the inside now.

#3 Parent Weasel - 2010-03-18
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

I just got my 10-year perm residence visa on Monday after my 5-year per residence expired. I was there at the PSB for about 45-minutes and gone.

Hi there, Smitty, please divulge the damage,ie what it cost you for a 5-year one, and a 10-year one! I just wanna compare the cost of staying here on long L's. Then I can calculate what my financial loss would have been were I to be nailed workin without a Z, in either circumstance. No use being caught out after paying a sizeable sum for an RP! That money would, of course, be lost! Cheaper being caught out with a long L,maybe?
Been at it for more than a decade, so far so good!

#4 Parent A D - 2010-03-18
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

Your 10-dayer took effect from your date of application for a visa, not from the date the visa clerk stuck the visa onto a page in your passport.
One of my former colleagues at a school in Shanxi was treated similarly by the local PSB director.
Seems that Asshat Monkeys aren't solely indigenous to Wuhan PSB!

#5 Parent Smitty - 2010-03-18
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

1) You are fortunate that ANYONE at the U.S. Consulate or the U.S. Embassy could even speak enough English to handle your call, much less answer the phone. I seriously doubt at all that they had any form of influence on you getting your passport back.

As for the Wuhan office of the PSB, Bureau of Entry and Exit Wounds....they are far from the worst in China. Maybe they are in the top 20 if I had to guess.

I just got my 10-year perm residence visa on Monday after my 5-year per residence expired. I was there at the PSB for about 45-minutes and gone.

I'll take the PSB over anyone at the U.S. Embassy or the U.S. Consulate any day.

The PSB in China, well...they are the PSB in China.

#6 Parent Turino - 2010-03-18
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

Exit China asap. Every day of overstay will mean a fine of 500 RMB, up to a maximum of 5000 RMB.If you overstay, you'll get another visa, a * visa, costing you the same as an L visa, but the * means you've been in hot water, and the HK office might be unwilling to issue you with a visa to re-enter China if they see that. If you are forced to overstay, due to problems with not having enough time to exit, destroy your passport in HK, after taking photocopies of it and its recent visas. Then go to the US visa office in HK, and apply for a temporary passport. It only lasts for 1 year, but you can get it within a week, as it's not a 'bio' one. Sort out your HK visa. Then apply for a visa to re-enter mainland. Someone else in the same boat as you managed to re-enter, after having had a * visa! No reason why that course of action shouldn't work again! Good luck,I reckon you need some!

#7 Parent Frustrated - 2010-03-17
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

That's just not fair. If someone pays and is denied, their fees should be refunded. What I don't get, well I don't get a number of things. First, why even have boxes on their to check, and why make the minimum 30 days if they can give as little as 10. Hell, they did not even put 10 on mine. The marked it 16-19th, which doesn't make any sense, since I dropped it off the 9th. I think this was just their way of trying to make sure I did not try and go somewhere else to get another extension. I mean hey, 16-19th, that looks to weird, we have to check into that.

I guess I will have to head to HK, as an extension is likely out of the question. I am getting so tired of these petty officials. I love the people, and the country, but to get anything done is impossible. As long as you have tons of money, great. However if you are not loaded, too bad.

I was just shocked at the officials total lack of shame at his own petty vindictive actions. He went out of his way to let me know why, and seemed to exalt in the fact that he could act so unreasonable and get away with it. I've never run into behavior like this, and why? Because I did not want to be his buddy? This weird guy from the local PSB, after helping me with a visa issue, his job by the way, kept calling me endlessly after wards to be his pal. Maybe he was in love, seems more likely now he is just nuts. Regardless, had I known things would end in this manner, I'd have just visited another place to get an extension. Now that seems unlikely.

Still, the sheer vindictiveness and petty cruelty of it, they've made it near impossible to make plans to leave the country before then. 2 days? That is unreasonable by any standards. Any advice on what I might do? This is unfair to say the least, and leading me to believe I am getting a 30 day, and then, 6 days later telling me I have only 10, is outrageous. Who can I talk to? What can I do. Phone the Mayor of Wuhan? yeah right. Contact the newspapers? Pfft, owned by the state, and don't report on police mis conduct, ineptitude, or anything that might look bad for China. What the hell can I do?

#8 Parent Foxy - 2010-03-18
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

It's good that you have posted about how the PSB in Wuhan conducts its business. We can get a flavor of what can happen to foreigners at a PSB by reading your post. I can't say I'm surprised by the awful way you have been treated there. Now I'll tell you why:
Recently, I was at a PSB to renew my spousal visa. The time before that I had applied for a one-year L visa there, but was told I'd have to take a medical before I could get it, but that I could get a six month L without a medical if I liked. I opted for the latter. But the last time I went there to renew again, a young Chinese man and the PSB clerkess started shouting and bawling. Other PSB staff, also in police uniform, went to the other side of the counter, to try to calm the man down. Just then, I was told I'd need a medical to get a six month L. I became angry and gave said clerkess the thumbs down, saying 'no way'. Then my wife, who was also acting as my agent, started quarrelling with said clerkess, who criticised me for my attitude! While my wife managed to persuade her to phone her director to check on the visa regulations, the young Chinese man told me the clerkess had spoken to his mother like she was lowlife. He wanted me to accompany him to her director to complain about her. But my wife advised me not to do that, as, unlike the young man, I'd have to continue to visit said PSB for spousal visas, unobtainable in all other PSB offices, which were not located in my wife's hometown, as that visa office was! The director told the clerkess I could get the six month spousal L without a medical. The clerkess also said to my wife that she couldn't care less if complaints were lodged against her, as her job was boring, and in the event of complaints from visa applicants, she would be able to get transfered to a less boring job involving the checking of much less paperwork. My wife told her she was lucky to have such a sinecure, as she was often idle, as the city was not visited by too many foreigners, and that she got a good wage,and that many Chinese would love to have a job like hers. The young Chinese man left with his mother for the director's office in order to complain. Later, my wife told me he had said earlier in Chinese that the foreigner,namely me, will look down on you all for the way you conduct business and quarrel in public, and that he had never witnessed that kind of thing while he was abroad!
As for complaining to your country's consul in Beijing,you needn't bother. They can do nothing to help you. But they could treat Chinese visa applicants badly if they wished to do so. They won't do that!

#9 Parent Turino - 2010-03-17
Re: Wuhans gone crazy

Believe me, Wuhan Public Security Bureau isn't alone in being incompetent and vindictive. I can name two other PSB offices that are crocks of s**t too, based on my own dealings with them. What particularly annoys me is when you apply for a visa renewal, you pay the fee, but you don't know at that time how long you'll get! That's up to the director; the clerkess cannot decide that - she has no authority to do so!
But foreign visa offices in Beijing are maybe even worse! They'll not refund visa fees if they decide not to issue a visa to a Chinese applicant wishing to go abroad. They'll pocket the cash - grossly unfair too! Why don't they charge successful applicants a higher fee, and refund the fees of unsuccessful applicants.That would be a fairer system!

One's as bad, if not worse than, the other!

Frustrated - 2010-03-17
Wuhans gone crazy

I recently paid a visit to Wuhan, and in the process paid a visit to their Security Entrance and Exit Bureau, so I could get my tourist visa extended. Something I've done many times in the past. I went in, filled out the application, marked the 30 day x on the slip, and left.

Well when I returned a week later to pick it up, they said they had lost it. I said what, they said they could not find it, come back in 3 days. Well I was having none of this, so the first thing I did was contact the US Consulate in Beijing. They were puzzled as well, and agreed to cal the office in Wuhan. Next thing you know I'm getting a call from the Wuhan office saying to come in and pick up my passport. I figured whatever my consulate had said got them in gear to find it, or do whatever to straighten it out, and they told me to come in the next day to pick it up.

Next day comes around, I go in in the afternoon, am handed my passport, and I go to look at my new visa. I find it and am a little confused. As I glance at the dates, and compare the date it starts, and the date it expires, I find the visa is only valid for "3" days. I figure something must be wrong, so I ask, they say "We changed our mind, and decided to give you a 3 day visa only." The woman said. This was news to me, as it was 8 days since I applied, leaving only 2 left. This could not possibly be right, too unreasonable, arbitrary, and capricious, not to mention nonsensical to be for real.

I said there must be some kind of mistake, why is this only good for 3 days, what is going on here? I decided there was some real BS going on here, some kind of mistake, or something else all together, so I decided I had better record all further conversation, so as to keep everyone honest, and so no one could claim they had not said something later which they clearly had said. Everyone knows how common that is here.

Well once I said I was recording everything, everyone got very distant, and picked up a phone, immediately calling their supervisor. I said to myself "Now this will get worked out, finally."

After about 10 minutes of waiting,a rather portly self important official appeared, one that I recognized, and knew very well, and everything came to make perfect sense to me.

The man took me into a room, and proceeded to talk, but then noticed my cell phone sitting there recording. I could have just pretended I had it sitting there, and not told him it was on, but I figured that would not be honest, so I told him. Well, the guy freaked out, I mean freaked out. he jumped up, tried to grab my phone, started blathering about how the police were the power in China, I was a foreigner, and that if I didn't watch out I would get arrested if I didn't obey the laws of China. He went on to say that I had no power, and no right to record our conversation, that only the police had such right, and that he was the power, not me, his exact words. I was stunned, the guys tirade went on and on. When he was done after about 10 minutes, I asked if there was some law against it, and he said no, but that a good person would not do such an thing. When I explained it was for my own protection, and to keep everyone honest, he just went on saying, no, no. He then took me out of the office and in a very unprofessional manner walked me out into the main waiting area of the visa bureau, where for over 1 hour he verbally abused me to cause me to, in his mind I guess, to lose face. He even said he took me out there to embarrass me because I had the nerve to want to document our conversation. I was shocked, as I only had one issue, my visa, and why I'd only been given three days. He said that I was not owed an answer, and that he was not obligated to give me one.

I have never been treated so poorly and shabbily. This fellow went on and on, telling me how China was great, I wasn't Chinese, I had no rights, and then telling me that recording our conversation was useless. If it was so useless I asked, why did he care? He then said he didn't, but kept asking me to turn off the recorder. It got stranger, as he proceeded to say how people in parks recorded things, not in police stations, in there, he was the power. he even said this, I have it all on tape.

It was all rather strange to be honest, surreal even, as this "gentleman" and I use the term loosely, stood there in the center of the room, spouting off nationalistic propaganda for all to hear, about how China was great, and I had to obey it's laws or he would arrest me. That I'd done nothing wrong did not seem to deter him from the need to assert his and China's rights to give a person whatever length visa they wished to, and that I did not have the right to record him. When I disagreed in this case, and told him that I should have been told when I applied that there was a problem, he just went off on some other tangent. When I said I should have been called and told that they were going to change my visa, he said I should have called them. I asked "why" how could I know there would be a problem? It is my job to call you back, and find out if everything is ok with such a routine thing as a visa extension? Why then did you ask for my phone number to begin with? It makes no sense that you would expect me to see the future and know that you folks were going to arbitrarily make a decision, after I had paid for my 30 day visa no less, that would change the length of time to "3 days". Once I said that the guys head snapped up, and he said very clearly "You are no friend of China". At that point I knew I was getting no where, and in fact the more sense I made, the less head way I would actually make. I had never run into anyone in my life like this fellow. So I put away my phone, said good bye, and got the heck out of there to get out of China within 48 hours, as I had no choice, since that's all the time they had actually given me. During the conversation, where the man went on and on repeating himself again and again, saying the same thing, "China is great, this is China, in China you must abide by Chinese law", he eventually did tel me why my visa was changed, and in turn I was given a length of time that would make things most inconvenient for me.

Now let me tell you that indeed I did know this fellow, but only in a passing manner. You see, half a year ago, I was on my way through Wuhan, and had had a visa issue I had to deal with. Well this fellow rather ineptly tried to offer aid, aid which would have caused me to over stay my time in China, hence I had to leave China and have my issue dealt with elsewhere outside of the mainland. Now, six months later, this man told me that he was upset I had not returned any of this phone calls, and that because he was angry that I had in effect snubbed him, that that was why he had only given me a "3 day" visa, as pay back.

Now, I am scrambling, 8 days after I applied for what was supposed to be a 30 day visa extension, to get the hell out of dodge, so to speak. This town is crazy, and the authorities in it are also crazy. I have never been treated so poorly, or with such lack of consideration in my entire life. And for what? Because some starry eyes PSB official who was in love with the idea of being friends with some American didn't get back the attention he thought he deserved? Absurd. I will be contacting the US consulate again for sure, and letting them know of what actually happened, and why.

This guy was literally nuts. As he talked to me, he paced around me in circles whilst I was standing, and continued to do so while I was sitting. The whole time he went on and on about the power of China, how great they were, on and on into infinity. There were really the words he used. He just wouldn't get off the subject of the cell phone either, as if after what had happened with my visa I would not want some record of everything. The guy did not seem as bothered by the recording of the conversation as he did by the fact that is wasn't he that was the one doing it. "I have the power, not you" he kept saying. I wonder if he realized he was making himself look worse, as he blathered on about how no one cared about what I was recording. If that's the case, why make a big deal of it I said.

I have been in and out of China quite a bit over the past 5 or 6 years, and seen many things, but I must tell you, I have never seen anyone act this childish, petty, or be so obviously vindictive, and act proud of it. I used to enjoy going to Wuhan, but this has soured my taste of that particular city. I think there must be a ton of corruption there for officials like this guy to act in such a manner. I have a recording of the entire conversation, much of it was this guy yelling for everyone, foreigner and Chinese alike, to hear. Very unprofessional fellow, not to mention immature.

I would advise foreigners to steer clear of the Wuhan visa office in Hankou. The officers there are not the type of people you want to deal with, not at all. They do not do things in a routine, efficient manner, and more or less seem to find any possible opportunity to jam a foreigner up. I wonder if they realize they are only hurting China, and it's world image by doing this. Not to mention how it will effect how their citizens are being treated when traveling abroad to America.

All of this could have been avoided had someone called me and given me some warning, anything. Instead they stalled, and withheld my visa an extra day by saying it was lost, just to make things as difficult for me as possible. When I applied it was for 30 days, the woman accepted my paper work, and in turn, in my mind, we had made a contract for her to perform a particular service, which I am paying for no less. If there is some problem, I expect to be contacted, that's what they get your phone number for to begin with, for goodness sake. That this was not even done, and my passport held an extra day, was clearly planned with malice, and the officer even admitted as much to me in regards to why my visa time had been reduced arbitrarily, without so much as an inkling of notice. In my opinion this is fraud really, as I contracted for a service, was told what that service would be, paid for it, and when I went to get what I had purchased, it wasn't at all what I had actually paid for. Had I not contacted my consulate, I wouldn't even have gotten my visa back until the day it expired, which is likely what had been planned for in the first place, as it's what would have happened otherwise.

Totally whacky, crazy experience, that I thought others should know about. Be forewarned, avoid Wuhan Security entry and exit bureau. Trust me on this, you'll be happy you did.

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