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Return to Index › Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!
#1 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2010-04-13
Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!

Yes, Oswald, I stand by that statement. I would be tempted if I was weighed down with the amount of work that is shoved onto the backs of many Chinese university teachers. The temptation would be powered by my need for rest from being overburdened, though, not by a desire for monetary profit. I didn't, however, say that I would do it! As I hate plagiarism, it would be unlikely that even in those circumstances, that I would actually succumb to it.

Why have I posted under a Chinese username? I honestly, can't remember, as I chose that name about five years ago! Actually it's not a real Chinese name: it's a job title. As for that being an indication that I want to be Chinese, what nonsense. Do all our students in China choose English names because they want to be American, or British or whatever?

Ok, I do admit, my statement that you quoted could be clearer, and it could be construed, by some, that I'm making excuses for cheats. however, if you look at the context, and my subsequent clarifications of how I stand on the issue, you should be able to see, that I was not making excuses for dishonesty.

Just because somebody understands why somebody commits an illegal act, under trying circumstances, it doesn't mean that they support them in such an endeavour, that they believe that person was right to do it, nor does it mean that they believe that said person should be exonerated from punishment.

#2 Parent The Skilled One - 2010-04-13
Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!

it's suprising to find you lack the critical skills, or even basic reading comprehension skills needed to understand the simple argument I've been putting forward.

According to the quote above, you must possess the basic reading and comprehension skills as far as postings on topic of academic fraud (plagiarism) are concerned.

Perhaps you are right provided you are an expert in that area! Are you?

#3 Parent Oswald Sinclair - 2010-04-13
Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!

I think the problem here is that, Chinese teachers, particularly in universities are pressured to write theses, that universities want published to promote their name. On top of that while teaching, said teachers have to study for further degrees. It's all about face and so called "prestige". The more "doctors" or "professers" that work for a school, the more money they feel they can charge students for tuition fees.
So, what do these understandably, tired, and burdened teachers, do? Naturally, because they want a little time to sleep, watch a movie, be with their families, take a day trip, and have something that comes close to a life, they plagiarize. I know I would be tempted to do the same if I was in their shoes.

Unlike me, Yinwen would be tempted to plagiarise, were he a Chinese university teacher, in order to get a life! He's making excuses for the disgraceful and dishonest practice of plagiarism prevalent in Chinese tertiary education as practised by Chinese teachers employed there. He even says he'd be tempted to plagiarise, were he a Chinese teacher employed at a university in China! Could it be that he has fallen into the trap of trying to make excuses for dishonesty? Why has he chosen to post under a Chinese username? Is he a foreigner who wants to be a Chinese? Rather him than me!

#4 Parent Yingwen Laoshi - 2010-04-13
Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!

Well, Oswald, for somone who sounds as educated as yourself, clever enough even to hold such a responsible position as having to grade phd postgraduates theses, it's suprising to find you lack the critical skills, or even basic reading comprehension skills needed to understand the simple argument I've been putting forward.

If you had bothered to read my previous posts carefully you would note two things that you have apparantly failed to comprehend:-

1. I stated quite clearly that I do not for a moment tolerate my students plagiarizing. That means I would not under any circumstances accept known plagiarized material from anybody. In fact I punish my students for doing so.

2. I do not sympathize with anybody, including teachers, who plagiarize simply for profit or out of laziness.

Now even if you do not wish to look back at my previous posts, where I quite clearly stated the above two points, believe it or not; in the light of what I've just stated above, does your post still hold water?

My my! Turnoi and yourself make quite a pair. Apparently very intelligent, but not able to grasp a simple argument. Ironic, seeing that you are both apparently responsible for grading the critical thinking skills of advanced students!

#5 Parent Oswald Sinclair - 2010-04-12
Re: Plagiarism in China is one of their traditions!

No, I can't follow you, English Teacher!
Have you ever been in a position to supervise and evaluate a Master or a Doctoral thesis? What would you do if you found out and could prove that your dear graduate student committed a big cheat by plagiarising and did not properly reference all quotes he may have taken from another text?

But I can follow you, Turnoi.

Those of us who have the serious responsibility of judging the thesis of a master's or a PhD postgraduate student have no choice but to advise rejection of such an award if the thesis is found to include plagiarised material. Simple as that - sympathy is totally irrelevant, and also an unnecessary sentiment.
I guess some foreign teachers of English in China are prone to sympathising with their overworked Chinese colleagues who have plagiarised for profit. Foreign teachers like that are generally only teachers of spoken English rather than of written English, and post with Chinese usernames. They really want to become Chinese very much. Personally, I wouldn't, given the deceitful things like plagiarisation far too many of my Chinese colleagues will do without so much as a second thought first!

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