Mahoma Iza
- 2010-05-21
Why did the teachers surrender their passports?
Most teachers get here as newbies, so they trust the company and give their passports to get their visas issued.
The rest of the teachers that get here are either retarded or desperate for a visa. I got there with an already expired visa, a few handshakes and the fee to pay was much lower. These guys have lots of connections, which is good in a way, but they change more than half their staff at least twice a year. Nobody wants to stay there, even as a favor for helping them with the visas.
By the way, the visa you get is an F visa, and extensions. That is one of the reasons they don't give your visa back, or you would know you are working illegally. The other reason is so that you don't run away.
Did they get receipts for them?
No. The only sort of receipt you get is when for some reason you do keep your passport and then ask for a loan to the company.
Have they asked and been told why their passports haven't been returned yet?
The answer is usually that the police have them. You ask the police and they don't have a shit. Then somebody else "just got it", because you asked for it, but that person is out of town, or that sort of shit... until you call your embassy.
How do you know said recruiter doesn't have a legitimate licence to employ FT's?
I would like to know how this guy knows this...
Can you explain about the stamps in more detail?You see,maybe there is more than one agency involved.
In the contract there are 3 names. Long ago this company was a school. They they became an agency, with a completely different name and the school part got separated and is managed by other people, now with no links whatsoever to this place. Then another "school" came, inside the company's office, and it has another name too. Besides the name and phone number on the contract are those of a school that's not even in the same city, and when you call them they give another name and claim to know nothing about this tianshuo.
What makes you think FT's have been moved to avoid the police?
I support this. Last year, many of the teachers were moved many times because they witnessed how they got into a British guys apt and got out with some of his stuff. This guy was already staying somewhere else because he had sued them due to bad use of his passport( they buy cars "under" the foreigners name and get it into China), and was being hunted.
How do you know that the Jilin Education Department has been bribed?
Id like to know this too... What I do know is that one of the heads of the school studied with half the current police department (the one that issues visas, forgot the name), and the president "secretly" dates a police boss. Well, that can't tell much, for they are not necessarily related to the company practices.
Turino
- 2009-06-10
Native teacher,I'm sure you realise that your passport doesn't actually belong to you - it belongs to the government that issued it to you.It can be deemed invalid if tampered with,and your employer has no right to retain it for long periods.Like it or not,foreign embassies/visa offices must take action re such a complaint if it is made by one of their nationals.Another possible angle to initiate an investigation from the top?
Turino
- 2009-06-09
I know what you are talking about re the contract.The official one is,as you say,numbered,and should have a clause about arbitration in Beijing in the event of a dispute that is unresolvable after attempted negotiation locally.There is also an appendix,which is not numbered.It details the teaching duties among other things.
To issue an FT with a Resident's Permit,the PSB needs your contract,your medical,and your Foreign Experts' Certificate.FT's without a Western university degree can't get the FEC from certain provincial capitals.Z visas for the province are only approved by the provincial capital,though you may be teaching elsewhere in the province.You only have 30 days from your date of entry into China on your Z visa to get the RP.If you don't get the RP,you're in trouble.After that,the Z visa reverts to an L.Then you can extend the L for 10 days,and then exit China,or be illegal at 500Yuan/day fine up to a ceiling of 5000 Yuan.Your situation is dreadful there!I've never heard of such a thing,but one lives and learns.I wouldn't expect much help from foreign embassies/visa offices - I've heard most of them are disinterested in the problems of FT's!Why don't all of you unite and go to the PSB in the provincial capital en masse?
native teacher
- 2009-06-09
Torino,
As much as I like your questions, the who I am and the how I know is not your business. Lets just say I know a lot about this company and their practices. I also have a lot of documentation about this company. The stamp issue is a large problem. They are not a recruiter but a language school. The stamps they use represent many different companies but none of them match the schools name on the contract. Perhaps you should review your official government contract. Not the typed one, but the numbered one that comes from the foreign affairs department. Perhaps you don't know what I am talking about. And all of the information I said here is just the tip of the ice berg. The teachers are required to submit their passports in order to convert a "z" visa into a resident permit and foreign expert card. This is why the teachers submit the passports, after that the passports are not returned. The last teacher who asked for it back, recieved them as well as returned home to his apartment to find all of his personal things of value had been stolen. Coincedence? I think not. I would say instead of questioning all of the evidence against this company try to help shut them down and prevent people from becoming vitual slaves to this company. As much as I think your suggestion for Beijing to investigate is a good one, here is how tian shou will respond.. they will shut down the school being investigated and reopen under a different name. This is a common practice here in China, when in trouble close down and reopen a different school. What truely has to happen is these people need to be put in jail, (probably wishful thinking siince they also have contact with the police chief here in Jilin. Maggie the owners daughter is having an affair with him) The foreign teachers from all countries need to be warned and need to stop going to this school. Only then can the criminal activities against the FT stop.
And Faith, This school is a bad school. It is probably the worst school I have seen here in China. I am not committing Libel, I have documented proof of everything I have said, including the bribery issue. This company has a history of retaining passports, not paying teachers what they have earned, dishonesty and in some cases abuse against FT. The abuse was witnessed first hand against a young lady about 18 months ago. All of this has gone unpunished, although reported to the authorities. so before you start defending Tian shou, learn about them. They truely are mafia run.
Turino
- 2009-06-08
Currently there are 30 foreign teachers from several different countries whos passports are being held against the teachers will. they are not being returned. Currently the school is moving the teachers from apartment to apartment over the last 3 weeks to avoid the police who are investigating the passport issue. The school does not have a ligitimate locense to hire foreign teachers and if you ever examine the stamp they use on the documents the name of the company stamping the signature and the name of the company you have a contract with are not the same. Also if you look at several different contracts the stamps they use are all different companies. Each payday you have to fight to get the correct amount of money. they have bribed [ ] the jilin education department to look the other way to the tune of 500,000 RMB each year.
Why did the teachers surrender their passports?
Did they get receipts for them?
Have they asked and been told why their passports haven't been returned yet?
How do you know said recruiter doesn't have a legitimate licence to employ FT's?
Can you explain about the stamps in more detail?You see,maybe there is more than one agency involved.
What makes you think FT's have been moved to avoid the police?
How do you know that the jilin Education Department has been bribed?
How do you know the bribe constitutes 1/2 a million Yuan?
Have any or indeed all of the foreign teachers been teaching there without residents' permits,or with L visas,or with F visas?What about medicals?
I'd have thought it would have been nigh impossible for you to have gotten so much detailed information about your employers' business practices,in particular about the sum of money you claim has been paid as a bribe!
Even so,an official investigation is urgently required!
Faith
- 2009-06-08
While I realize that a teacher may have a bad experience with an otherwise good employer, I would welcome any info on disreputable ones. As most of you already know, libel laws are quite different in China and the UK than here in the US. I would worry about the teachers already in China getting into some hot water. Or is that unfounded?
Good post, Jayvin. Libel laws in any country are worthy of respect. But unfortunately at the same time, some foreign teachers in China tend to go overboard whenever schools receive bad reports online, no matter how few or how many. As someone looking on, as it were, I'm not in a position to judge the actual circumstances that have resulted in a complaint or in complaints made against a particular school online. Therefore I cannot apportion blame. So, I think what Silverboy and Turnoi have been doing is unfair. They assume all training centers, private schools, and recruiting agencies to be guilty until proven innocent. Actually, they are conducting a kangaroo court online. Maybe they will get into hot water for it if they ever come back to China. What I do know for sure is that China does have detailed libel laws, but often there's no rule of law - that may well be the only thing that can save their skins in the event of their re-entry to the country!
Native teacher
- 2009-06-08
Jayvin,
Allow me to provide specific information about tian shou. Currently there are 30 foreign teachers from several different countries whos passports are being held against the teachers will. they are not being returned. Currently the school is moving the teachers from apartment to apartment over the last 3 weeks to avoid the police who are investigating the passport issue. The school does not have a ligitimate locense to hire foreign teachers and if you ever examine the stamp they use on the documents the name of the company stamping the signature and the name of the company you have a contract with are not the same. Also if you look at several different contracts the stamps they use are all different companies. Each payday you have to fight to get the correct amount of money. they have bribed [ ] the jilin education department to look the other way to the tune of 500,000 RMB each year. Last semester they claimed to be a government project, This semester they are claiming to be the individual schools suck as Ji Da middle school. Neither one of these are true. If a school must lie cheat steal and bribe in order to do business do you think they are credible. You may think that I just committed libel, however all of what I have said is true and I have documents to prove it all.
Hope this helps you and all of the rest of the people out there stay away from this company. They are the worst company I have ever encountered anywhere in the world.
Jayvin
- 2009-06-08
Other boards, to start, assuming they allow it. Here's links to 3 of their recent postings elsewhere.
http://www.getesljobs.com/job_detail.asp?jobid=6548
http://jobs.echinacities.com/ShowJob-19917.html
http://www.jobsabroadbulletin.co.uk/tefl_jobs_index.shtml
Any specifics on why they are evil? While I realize that a teacher may have a bad experience with an otherwise good employer, I would welcome any info on disreputable ones. As most of you already know, libel laws are quite different in China and the UK than here in the US. I would worry about the teachers already in China getting into some hot water. Or is that unfounded?