TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
Return to Index › Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.
#1 Parent Cageygirl - 2010-06-07
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

I DID NOT say you can work "permanently" without a resident permit.

And neither did I, I wouldn't make such a foolish statement, or indeed imply it by using other words, under any circumstances. I'm not an idiot!
As for your advice, not only does it conflict with what the US Embassy states on their website, but also with what the Middlekingdom site says. Having said that, up to now, I have never had any qualms teaching until my RP has been made available to me in person within 30 days of my entry date into China on a Z visa. But that's just me, not the other poster who initially stressed he was not prepared to teach illegally under any circumstances. He can do as he pleases, follow your advice, or other advice on the matter, and any other readers can do so too. I don't care about it at all. However, I wouldn't give such conflicting advice re the matter of teaching legally in China, as you have done, in case somebody followed it and subsequently got into trouble on account of having done so. I wouldn't want something like that on my conscience!

#2 Parent Grow Up - 2010-06-07
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

I DID NOT say you can work "permanently" without a resident permit.

You are allowed to work once you've been issued the foreign expert certificate. YOU CAN WORK while the R.P. is being processed. You are allowed to work during the 30 day grace period to obtain the R.P. Of course, you must always get the R.P. to stay in the country and work.

However, you can work while the R.P. is being processed at your local PSB. The statement from the website you suggested is misleading. Yes, you must have both documents, but you can work during the 30 day period that you must get your R.P.

Check the law as actually written - not a statement on the embassy website.

#3 Parent Cageygirl - 2010-06-06
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

Strictly speaking, you DO NOT have to wait to actually begin work/teaching until you have the Resident Permit in-hand. So long as you've been issued the FEC you can begin working.

U.S. Citizen Services - U.S. Embassy Beijing China
http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/service.html .... One may not legally teach in China without both the Z visa and a valid Resident Permit. ...
beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn US Citizen Services - Similar

In future, first do your homework before posting on here. Otherwise, someone might follow your misleading advice, and end up in hot water!

#4 Parent Grow Up - 2010-06-06
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

Strictly speaking, you DO NOT have to wait to actually begin work/teaching until you have the Resident Permit in-hand. So long as you've been issued the FEC you can begin working.

#5 Parent Smartie - 2010-06-06
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

It would seem that allowing for me to go 2 weeks prior to the beginning of classes might be a strategic move; they really wouldn't have much time to drag-ass on the RP once school starts.

That'll be fine. Even if you have to teach without an RP, it would just be for about 10 days at most. Not worth making a fuss about, imo.
But if you were to arrive just before the teaching begins, that would give them more time than they actually need to drag their heels re your RP. Generally speaking, university FAO's are rather lazy, and dislike red tape. They prefer to visit the local PSB office only once with all the paperwork necessary to apply for their foreign teachers' RP's. So, they wait until the last of the FT's arrives and has proved his worth in the classroom before applying for the RP's on behalf of their foreign teachers en bloc.

#6 Parent Justin - 2010-06-05
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

Thank you for the helpful post.

You are correct, I wouldn't work illegally even though that may mark me as a trouble maker. I'm a professional and I will behave accordingly. I also realize that they may simply fire me on the spot. That's ok, too. First, I'm not hurting for money and if the worst happens I can simply return home. No big deal. On the other hand, friends in China have agreed to allow me to stay with them (if I am unable to get a job before the September courses begin) while looikng for a job within China. I could always switch my visa to a tourist one, while also taking advantage of the HK free period, to find a job for the next semester (or for a private institution as an interim filler). I do have to admit, though, I might be willing to work a week or maybe 1.5 weeks without my RP, simply as a courtesy to them. I know that hiring a FT can seem like roulette and they do not want to make a bad investment. It may seem contradictory to the first and second sentences of this paragraph but I would consider it a professional courtesy for them to evaluate my teaching abilities before committing to me for an entire year.

The schools I've talked to have all wanted to arrange, and sign, the contract before I leave. It's also one of the key points I will push for. Specifically, they stated the process as thus: after negotiating, they email the contract to me. I sign the contract and mail it back to them. They sign it, then mail it back to me. I use it (with other documents) to get my Z visa. In discussing my graduation date, they did express their uneasiness in forming a binding contract before my graduation which causes further problems due to when I graduate and the time required to mail documents.

It would seem that allowing for me to go 2 weeks prior to the beginning of classes might be a strategic move; they really wouldn't have much time to drag-ass on the RP once school starts.

I will be wary of the bait and switch, thank you.

Justin

#7 Parent Smartie - 2010-06-05
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

I did already know about the residence permit but that is putting the cart in front of the horse. Logically, if I am able to receive and use documentation prior to my graduation in getting a Z visa then I can do so soon; landing with a Z visa with 2 weeks to spare should be ample time to get my RP before courses begin. Don't you agree?

My point is, Justin, you wanna be legal. Fair enough. But the school has its own agenda. Your presumption that two weeks is enough to get you your RP needn't be agreed by them. They really needn't care you have made a life-changing decision. You came from afar to fulfill their requirement for an FT, as they see it. You can't get an RP on your behalf. They need to do it for you. They have all the aces. They needn't say anything about when you will get your RP after you arrive, but they must get it within 30 days of your landing. They can choose to delay as long as they feel necessary to check out your teaching.
BTW, have you signed a contract with them online, and have they stamped it, or have you merely used their invitation letter, or will you be sent it, and subsequently use it, to get your Z visa? If no countersigned contract, you're wide open to bait and switch tactics. Now, after you've arrived, there will be other foreigners there, and what will you do if the university bullshits re the RP to you and the others while asking you to teach? The university will say, no problem, trust them. By doing so, they can check you out first, while you're teaching illegally, and dispense with you without any penalty or wasting money on obtaining an RP for you, as they choose, should they be dissatisfied with your teaching. Maybe the other FT's will agree, but you won't, on account of your principles. I reckon if you take up the 'legal' issue with them, they'll be dissatisfied with you, and deem you a troublemaker. A bad start.
Now, let's contrast another scenario, you arrive on a 90 day tourist visa. In the event of being driven away, you've the time with your foot on mainland, don't forget, to seek another job. You're here, a great plus for a potential employer! Some employers are desperate, take a job at a state institution, you'll be okay, even if your teaching is pretty bad. More options. Only thing is, you'll have to go outside mainland to change the tourist visa to a Z. Most FT's do an HK visa run to do so.
Either scenario involves illegality, but I think the second one is better for you, as there are more options, coz you're here, and immediately available country- wide for a longer period of time. An employer won't delay more than about 25 days in deciding your fate. If he delays too long, it will be hard for him to replace you - outwwith the recruiting season. However, do as you please! Don't forget, you're the one that stressed teaching legally in the first place. That's why I put the cart before the horse, and posted what I did. Good luck, whatever way you decide to play it, but beware of bait and switch!

#8 Parent Justin - 2010-06-05
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

I didn't reply because the topic I was addressing was options about getting documents to receive an FEC before my actual graduation date. Your first reply didn't address this; instead, you went on to give me your advice about other things. I did read it and I did pay attention to it but did not feel the need to respond as I had nothing constructive to say. You seem to have a definite opinion regarding legality in ESL and want to express your opinion. For me, it's not a topic I am interested in discussing. Your second reply was the same as your first, in this regard. Your post is dead on, however, and if someone is helped by this then I am glad.

There was one thing I wanted to reply from your first message but didn't think it was worthwhile as it only relates to my personal ability to research topics before making a life-changing decision and achieving reputability online isn't important to me. I did already know about the residence permit but that is putting the cart in front of the horse. Logically, if I am able to receive and use documentation prior to my graduation in getting a Z visa then I can do so soon; landing with a Z visa with 2 weeks to spare should be ample time to get my RP before courses begin. Don't you agree?

Have a great day,

Justin

#9 Parent Smartie - 2010-06-04
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

Let's stay on topic, shall we, as you have suggested! As per the subject of your initiated thread, teaching in Sept. You DID say that you're not interested in teaching ILLEGALLY. So, given the LEGAL situation re teaching in China, and what you have said, might I be so bold as to suggest that you obtain an assurance from your uni that they won't force you to compromise your principles, coz I know FOR A FACT many Chinese employers will!

If you don't respond, that's okay by me, coz other readers who truly don't want to teach illegally and those who are prepared to do so can get useful information by reading the following:

Let me reiterate for everyone's benefit that foreigners should not do any teaching until they have their Residence Permit in their possession. No ifs and no buts, that's the law. Probationary periods, if any, are irrelevant!

Let me add for those who are more trusting than Justin that: teaching illegally for a matter of a week or three is very unlikely to result in prosecution, as your employer has a vested interest in preventing this happening.Obvious to me, but obviously not to all!

#10 Parent Smartie - 2010-06-03
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

You're a funny guy, Justin, you've not done your homework re China! Even if you come over on a Z visa, you can't start teaching legally till your Chinese employer has gotten you your Residents Permit. Z visa is permission to enter mainland for the purpose of teaching, not to start teaching here. So, my advice to you since you don't wanna be 'illegal' is, don't come over in the 1st place! As for me, I don't give a damn about being illegal, but even so, I'm casting pearls of wisdom before you. I hope you're not a swine, for your sake!
Your employer has up to 30 days of your entry date on your Z to get you the RP. If you disappoint him, on probation, as it were, he will not get you the RP. Then you're in trouble. The Z will 'revert to' a 30-day L. If I were you, I'd have no qualms about being illegal for a few weeks!Up 2 u!

#11 Parent Walter P - 2010-06-03
Re: Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

Yes. As most issuing authorities also require two years of teaching experience, get a job elsewhere, gain proper experience, then apply for jobs here with ALL your original credentials and requirement fulfilled.

Justin - 2010-06-03
Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.

As the title says, I'm graduating in August (14th). It usually takes 1-2 weeks for them to mail the degree to the graduates. Foreign expert's certificate, which is required for a Z visa, takes 2-3 weeks to process and needs a degree. Chinese classes usually begin at the beginning of September.

My problem is obvious. My question is whether anyone has been in this situation before that could tell me if perhaps there are any documents I could get my school to write to show that I will be graduating that the governing body that issues FECs would take in lieu of a photocopy of a degree. I'm really not interested in working illegally. Any options?

Return to Index › Not getting my degree until August but want to teach in Sept.





Go to another board -