englishgibson
- 2010-07-23
Barry, it's really good you see what the bottom line here is. There're restrictions. Never mind the stories.
Cheers and beers
Barry
- 2010-07-22
But why would you want to poke in a dry sh*t? :) very nice...
The problem is there are so many "experts" out there, who know so much about so little, who are willing to guide or misguide the many who come here looking for answers. We all know stories about what "A man in the pub said to me last night" how many of them have actually been seen to be true? I could tell you the story of the American professor who was working in Foshan University who one day after ten years here was told, sorry good bye as the PSB came to remove him... is it true? who can tell?
No I will not go to the PSB and ask them if its ok for me to be here after 6 years, I'm not stupid, even though I may look it and some may think it.
englishgibson
- 2010-07-22
Barry, you might want to ask THE QUESTION your local authorities wherever you are. But why would you want to poke in a dry sh*t? :)
Cheers and beers to you
Diana
- 2010-07-22
Dear Bill,
I heard the same story three years ago. But nothing happened to me. Our Foreign Affairs Officer hasn`t mentioned this new law. One of the Japanese teachers is over 70 and has been teaching here longer than me. My school is in Jiangsu but I have friends in Shenzhen, Hunan and Inner Mongolia in the same situation like me.
Regards,
Diana
Barry
- 2010-07-22
I heard about this a few years ago...hhhmmm, funny thing is, my school has just renewed my contract, I had my medical, got a renewal of my foreign expert certificate and a new work permit Z visa thing for my 6TH YEAR HERE IN THIS SCHOOL! so what's the real story about his 5 year deal then? Can I expect the PSB to come and evict me from the school, indeed the country?
Bill
- 2010-07-21
Just an update: My visa was recently renewed, and much to my surprise, I was given a one year renewal instead of what had become the standard six months; so nice. This one year renewal, at its conclusion, will put me at five years, 5 months in country, so we shall see how things go during the next renewal process.
I of course understand your comments and agree; knowing too much and too much western influence are not at the top of the qualification list for aspiring foreign teachers. However, over the past five years I have learned alot about the Chinese concept of "duty", something ingrained in the child's mind here as soon as they are old enough to understand and follow orders. Although I can never wholeheartedly adapt to this concept, I understand it is at the core of the thought process of most Chinese citizens and guides them in their daily life and decision making. The concept of duty in China often replaces common sense and logicical reasoning. It permeates the society as a whole. However western influence has caused and will continue to cause erosion in this concept, as more and more citizens begin their quest for individual rights and freedom
englishgibson
- 2010-07-21
Bill, why us, the long serving faithful ones that've helped the local economy to grow? we know too much. some of us aren't for the "cultural thing" anymore either. the other day someone asked me; "where are you from?" i said in chinese that i was from china. i cracked the youngster laughing. when i went on, in chinese, that i was from urumuqi, xinjiang, this young english language student was ready to piss his pants. after admitting that i was just pulling his leg, i told him that i stayed in china longer than him. saddenly, all the laughing stopped. :)
cheers and beers to the new meaning of globalization on mainland :LOL
englishgibson
- 2010-07-20
Diana, it's probably 'cause you are good and good looking teachers.
Cheers and beers
Bill
- 2010-07-19
Thank you for your reply and to the others who have taken the time to reply as well. In your particular case, you did not state exactly when was the last time you renewed your visa and I am told that this enforcement has been recently enacted(this month). If I had been a teacher visiitng this website and responding to this question, I would have repied as most of you have. I tend to think that these restrctions relating to time served and age are discretionary throughout the country. However when I hear of four different cases in the past month, from two different provinces, it gives me some pause. I have witnessed numerous visa restriction modifications already, since my arrival here in the early part of 2006. I used to be able to renwew for a year and those days have come and gone; now must revisit every six months to get renewal. If this five year restriction is to be suddenly enforced, my first thought would be to ask why are they focusing on people like us, who have served so faithfully and dilegently? There really are so few of us here in the country, I would think. I would like to get this information straight from the horse's mouth. However, never been quite sure who the horse is.
englishgibson
- 2010-07-19
CL, in fact, i can't find the regulation, although i've only seached in English. All that I've come up is this below and it does sure not prove the restriction is legal. Have a look at the wording below
2. What requirements foreign cultural and educational experts or foreign teachers should meet for working in China?(1) The invited object shall be friendly to China and willing to cooperate with us. Not only should he be excellent in professional level that enables the working commission but be good in healthy condition.
(2) Where the invited object is a foreign expert, he shall obtain the teaching and research experience for 3-5 years or more. The long-term cultural and educational expert shall gain master or higher degree or titles above instructor level and corresponding experience, meanwhile, the short-term invited expert shall be in possession of doctor degree or titles above associate professor and remarkable achievement in such academic areas.
(3) Where the invited object is the ordinary foreign teacher of language, he shall have gained the bachelor or higher degree and professional training on language teaching as well as some amount of language teaching experience.
link
http://www.china-tesol.com/SAFEA_Guide/_1_SAFEA_2002/_1_safea_2002.html
Now, I don't think any local authority wishes to be as straightforward as we would like to see. Also, I don't think the translations are as accurate as they should be. We're dealing with not so "transparent" culture.
From my experience, there're foreign teachers that've been denied work permits due to their age and I have read the regulation on daves esl site where some have brought up the regulations about the age limits as well as about the 5 year expert limits. Unfortunately, I am unable to bring the topics/regulations/links up here. Maybe some that're still daves members could find out about it.
Cheers and beers
Diana
- 2010-07-19
It didn`t happen to me. I have been teaching for six years in China and there is a Japanese teacher who has been working over 8 years in my college.
Regards,
Diana
cunning inguist
- 2010-07-18
This topic has been mentioned here before, so it is not "new", and it got a range of opinion. You ask for "realiable news" which is not easy, due we are told to various interpretations of the employment rules in some provinces. If a friend had told me this information I would want to know the source, and if it could be verified. My first question would be "Where did he/she find out?" If it was a friend of a friend, or the practice of one employer then I woud be sceptical - as it is a generalisation from the specific.
There is another "rule", about official age limits. Some recruiters/employers stipulate an age range, and you can see that clearly in some of the recruitment ads here. So then we get another interpretation saying you can't get a job over a certain age, soley based on what one employer /recruiter was stating. Someone once said that if we hear things three or four times, we are more likely to believe it, regardless of accuracy.
I have worked in the past with one teacher over 60 and who has been in China for 8 years now, without having to return home. I am suspicious of these 'visa rules' because it's possible they are made-up by the employer to get rid of somebody. But I'm hoping someone reading this can provide the link to the official information. And by link, I don't mean to another discussion forum.
The only thing I could find when I looked, was that long-term foreign experts need to be well-qualified. And that had nothing to do with visas!
englishgibson
- 2010-07-18
Bill, I really don't think this is a new restriction on mainland. The 5 years limit has been around for a while, but it has not been enforced...just like the 60 years age limit that began being enforced a few years ago. From my very experience, the local authorities and employers are worried about so many foreign "experts" that know so much about their culture and them. They want some fresh "experts" to abuse. However, there're some happy foreign campers on mainland and they'll probably tell you otherwise. Some of these may be satisfied as they've satisfied their local lords and the local lords've satisfied them. I think that if the local lords have connections, the foreign experts thick skin and/or some luck, it all can work out well and for a long long time..more than that 5 years.
Cheers and beers
Recently I have been informed by a friend of mine, also teaching in China, that the govenrment in China has now begun to refuse to renew visas of those who have worked in the country for five years. She cited three instances in Luoyang, Henan and one in Heibei(sp). Is there anynone presently teaching in China that has also heard any reliable news as to this proposed or actual change in visa restrictions?