Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

I know i'm a bit late to the party. But I can still tell you John that one of the main reasons that the education scene in China is so messed up is because of the system and its repeated failures at regulating human activity. The administrators are so busy thinking about regulating regulations that they don't take into account the constant, changing temperament of the human soul. In China any field of work cannot see past the modern cultural limitation of the "law of the jungle" mentality which plagues so many Chinese. Foreigners get trapped in this mindset as well and what you end up having is a smargsboard of a totally messy, disorganized workplace where everyone or almost everyone is in the process of carrying out their own agenda while pretending they care about other peoples' needs. Since this encompasses all aspects of life there including outside of work you really need to think about whether working there is in your best interests.

If you have already decided to go there then please take care.

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

Consider religious organisations that fund or support schools and other organisations. In some Western countries many places of education have strong religious connections, and in the process of their education, they also seek to instruct religious belief and customs. Some places place a strong emphasis and bias on 'their way being the only way', and it could be suggested that this doesnt provide a balanced education.

Reminds me of that Richard dawkins doco "Virus of faith" where he took on faith based schools in the UK. excellent stuff!

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

Nick, your certainty on boards is "surely" admirable but probably unhelpful. Just read your own post/quote below

If you and I both worked at the same place at the same time, our experiences would surely be different, just as we are. If you posted a good review of an employer, and I just followed you and said 'Its crap' that wouldnt be much help, and its that kind of comment or post that I dont think is valid.

So, what makes you so sure our experiences would be different? You probably have chosen a wrong word, haven't you? Ok, I'd give you a benefit of doubt since mods post here and it's hard to take our words, we write, back. But then you go on about some "CRAP" that's SURELY not helpful for foreign teachers here. Now, what I think is that people like you are some of the reasons we've got the "CUT THROAT BUSINESS" around.
Cheers and beers :)

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

Nick, it's not the moderator, but the tip of your tongue that "edits" your immediate feelings. On the contrary to you, I can quickly spot a recruiter on forums. Since, as you say, you have been reading a lot on forums, you should have noticed that it was neither my first year on mainland China, nor first bad experience with a local employer. Then, if one on forums doesn't count our correspondance with local employers experiences, job interview experiences or the knowledge of local employers' employment agreements as valid, he or she is questionable. While I agree that there are all sorts of quesitonable users on our forums, I disagree with such an approach to discredit the teachers that have some real experiences to share on. By the way, I accept your appology, although I do not accept your approach to forums either this or daves one. On the forums, you clearly are a user to watch out for, if the reader or participant is a real teacher.
Cheers and beers to fitness that I sure could discuss with you so much...wouldn't have to copy anything from anywhere :)

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

Sorry ... I cant edit posts once sent to a moderator.

I should have added claims from recruiters are indeed as bad as angry or bitter postings....if not worse. They are often hard to spot though.

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

Nick, writing a book often means that the writer has to "commercialize" its content, but posting on forums like this one means the teacher can freely say what he wants to say.

Adding a bit of verve to a book is less harmful than writing a venomous forum post which may be based on no experience of the issue in question, or just written in bitterness.

However, we do have some transvestite teachers on, don't we?

Im not 100% sure what this means ... Im guessing it refers to people assuming new identities online? As it was in reply to me I thought I should mention I am in agreement with you. The anonymity of the internet does seem to mean some people act a lot dumber online than Im sure they are in real life.

Anyway ...

I think the idea that education should be about nothing but education is a noble one, but its fairly naive to believe this is the case. This isnt exclusive to China, and it isnt exclusive to training schools.

Consider religious organisations that fund or support schools and other organisations. In some Western countries many places of education have strong religious connections, and in the process of their education, they also seek to instruct religious belief and customs. Some places place a strong emphasis and bias on 'their way being the only way', and it could be suggested that this doesnt provide a balanced education.

Consider modern educational targets within many countries. Many people in authority are set specific targets in terms of standards, and it could be suggested that education may take a back seat to achieving targets. Sometimes these targets do go hand in hand with a quality education, sometimes they do not.

Consider Overseas students in Western Universities. With Universities often charging incredibly high fees, foreign students are seen as a valuable income source for many universities, and standards may be dropping to allow more and more students to enter them, despite them being ill-equipped for study.

And consider the teaching itself. I would assert that it is very common for some schools, colleges, universities and teachers to place more emphasis on passing exams than they may pass on the learning process itself.

These are just 4 simple examples of how other factors may influence learning, and these are prevalent everywhere, not just in China.

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

John, it's about money, prestige and politics. Locals in some of these countries take a complete control of not only the business part but also the academic part, and standards as well as the language itself are often compromised. You can't teach the way they speak in your homeland, you must teach the way the locals speak your language. Foreign academics or none academic backpackers get often evaluated according to local standards, and so you may see either some FT suckups or frustrated desperados that'd like to change things (I am one of them).Then, you get these that get out of teaching and into local recruiting or editing where they further suck it up. Results are quite worrying on mainland China with respect to that. What sucks mostly is that the highly ethical and so human foreign schools, companies and their products often part with the locals for their personal reasons. At home, they preach one thing but abroad another. It sure doesn't get better, if western countries politicians increase cooperation in the area of education with some countries and that knowing there are great issues locals do not seek to solve. Some western countries have seemingly decided to compete with the rest of the world in the area of education and they would "cut throats" to get to momey and prestige. I hail the latest measures that UK education has taken against foreign students. Countries like the US or Australia are clearly going in the other direction as it's more of a business and prestige to them rather than the value of the education. Say for example, the US is currently putting a lot into student exchange programs as well as it is opening the door wide to foreign students into its higher education programs. Doing so, they are literally bending over to get as much as they can from the largest markets such as Indonesia or China. Quality of local students isn't as important as money that some filthy rich Chinese parents are so willing to pay. Their own "recruiters" on the other end of the ocean facilitate the process and even choose some "appropriate subjects" to study for some disrespectful high school dropouts.
Now,
Cheers and beers :)

Re: Why IS education such a cut throat business in Asia?

John: I have been teaching in Eastern Asia since 2007. I have taught in S. Korea, Macau, and the Philippines. Most of my teaching has been with Korean owned and operated companies, so my experiences may be a bit more focused on the Korean side of ESL Teaching. Here is a short summary of the reasons why it is so cut throat to teach ESL in Eastern Asia. Bad economy; too many applicants; no established teaching standards; cultural and anti-foreigner bias; bad teachers and those here only to party, or break the law.

You are dealing with cultures that in many ways are different (not superior or inferior) to those of us from the west. You are not a "teacher" in many peoples eyes unless you are certified in your country. Then there are those who might say that you are never a "true" teacher to all. Just keep in mind that the competition is stiff; some people will like you but some will NEVER like you; your boss may be good, or in some cases, the biggest unethical piece of garbage that ever walked the earth (and there is nothing you can do about it); if you are single, you will find it hard to date in some places, or maybe meet the person of your dreams in others; you will probably earn the equivalent (or less) of a fast food worker in the states.

DO come here to teach and learn about the world, or to marry the person of your dreams (if you are now single, LOL). DO NOT come to earn a lot of money, party all the time, and break laws. Be prepared for bad schools, bad supervisors, bad employment contacts, etc. But be happy if you find otherwise! Good Luck!