Chengdu FT
- 2010-09-28
Is it possible to save money and expereince China?
That really depends on what how much you want to save and what you would like to experience. Interseting to note that this is one of the few posters who has mentioned saving money instead of how much can they make.
If you want to experience "China" and save some money my advice is to go to Taiwan. You here of a lot less BS in Taiwan than you do in mainland. Also if you have been working in the Mid-east I will assume that you have good credentials. Beware that they do not count for squat here. Credentials will help you land a job easier, but rarely will affect your salary by more than about 50 US$ a month and that is only in the public school system. In the private sector forget about it.
Another thing to keep in mind, China really doesn't have a place for western educated professional teachers. You would really be better off with a degree in acting or theatre arts. "Teaching" here is much more related to performance art than education. Not all the jobs are that bad, but I would say at least 90% especially the ones you see posted on the net and it can take 1-3 years to find a place you are comfortable with.
Please remember that well paid teachers are not always the happiest teachers. Chengdu is a bit of the crossroads for people traveling in western China and I have met a number of FT from various places in China. Some of the happiest were working for NGO's or non-profits in poor areas with very modest salaries. Also the FTs that worked in universities were more or less content, but unless they do private work to supplement their income they are always on a tight budget. Middle school and high school teaching jobs are total monkey work, but they have generous amounts of vacation time.
I would say that the minimum amount of money you need to exist on is 2,000 a month for bare basics. That would be 1,000 for a shared apartment with utilities and another 1,000 for food if you cook at home with an occasional meal outside. This does not apply to Beijing, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, or Shanghai. For those cities I would probably double it and add another 500 to 1000 for trasportation. If you drink things will quickly get more expensive!
I know people that can save a decent amount of money here, BUT they have to hussle! That means getting your own visa sorted out (either "studying" full time on a student visa, doing visa runs to HK every so often, or finding someone who will sell you a visa), sorting out your own accomodation, and also dealing with your own health insurance. All in all I wouldn't recomend this to someone new to the country. It can be a real headache to manage all this without langauage skills or resources to get this sorted out. From there you need contacts so you can start free lancing for small schools and lining up privates. Privates are where the real cash is. Like I said you have to hustle if you want to make money.
I have some friends that have been able to pull in close to 20,000 a month this way, but it is not regular and they also have months where they only pull in 8,000. I would guess that they realistically make about 12,000 to 15,000 a month.
I have a rather unusual arrangement with a base salary, plus money for every class I teach.
November 10th 8,000 estimated
October 10th 10,000 pretty relaxed schedule
September 10th 22,000 busy and no life
August 10th 19,500 busy and no life
July 10th 13,500 moderately busy
Before and average of about 9,000 pretty relaxed schedule
So yeah you can save some decent money here, but it won't be a salary job with decent benefits and you will have to sacrifice.
If you want a "great" salary you can go with a private training center and have a real "Chinese experience"!
Hope that helps.
englishgibson
- 2010-09-27
Oldtimer sounds like an old hand on mainland. But then why would he think private centers pay only 5,000. So, when you get a closer look at his posts, you don't know which hand is older. Cheers and beers to the board of oldtimers :)
Dragonized
- 2010-09-27
Thanks for the info Sanguine the article was extremely helpful and enlightening. With regards to salary if you're really looking into saving money and surviving why not just do it in England, the USA, Australia, or New Zealand? You'll want to come here to enjoy life and live out the "vacation" mindset. While you need to take your job seriously you shouldn't settle for just being like back at home.
In my 2 years of teaching in China, I almost always had exclusively male expat teachers for colleagues. The one or two female teachers who were working with me that I saw on a more daily basis were either married or in their forties. Even then I didn't always see many. However what Sanguine has pointed out is certainly disturbing to say the least. I guess since these bosses think they have money and such they can just assume that the foreign woman will fall head over heels for them. They may also see the expat females as "trophy" for them to hunt. Truly a shame. I have heard of female teachers being harrassed when working in Russia and maybe occasionally in other countries they may be at risk if they're alone but as a whole I haven't personally seen how bad it is in China.
This is certainly something which can be elaborated on. Maybe some female teachers out there can share more of their stories as I have only read maybe 1 or 2 on this site.
Oldtimer
- 2010-09-26
That Englishgibson bloke is coming across like a tourist with his obsession with Western goods. In my view, they're seldom superior to Chinese goods, anyway, and tend to be overpriced here. Like me, many FT's in China choose to buy Chinese whenever possible. I'm not in China to do Western multinationals a favor. Quite the reverse, and I'm no brand follower either! About the only things I buy that is Western are chewing gum and razor blades.Just about everything else I buy is Chinese. I do get a laugh at FT's who come to China and feel they can't survive without Western products or Western food or pizzas, my pet hate - they'd be better not coming in the first place.
Sanguine
- 2010-09-26
Never said that foreign teachers could not live well here, if you re read my post I in fact said they often would live better then in their home countries in the west. That said saving a lot of money here requires one to sacrifice. I also said that indeed people here can and do make good salaries locally, it's only when they try to save what back in their home country would be a decent amount of money that they may run into a problem. As the Op was asking about saving money, I assume for the purpose of being able to go home with some cash in her pocket, that is what I addressed. If someone decides to live here long term, that's a different matter, and not one I addressed in my post. You indeed can save money here, to say you can save a lot is can be a bit misleading, depending on where you live. For example, if you are living in Shanghai or Shenzhen, and make 8,000 yuan, and your apartment is free, and you only buy food and never go out, you can save a fair amount. My guess is most people coming here though will want to have a life, go on actual vacations they could not afford back home, hence in such expensive cities saving won't be as easy. I do not recall ever speaking of simply buying imported goods, I only buy Chinese myself. Posters saying you can live well only buying local goods are correct to a point, but if you want to save money, a lot, you will have to curtail every aspect of your spending. Even Chinese goods in big expensive cities and get pretty pricey. You can shop for deals, but that can be time consuming. Again, if your purpose is to only save money, you will have to live pretty frugally, Chinese products or not. Others may wish to disagree simply for the sake of doing so, however this is more a matter of perspective, and what one persons considers "alot" to be when speaking of saving money. My idea of "alot" is likely different than that of others, so it's a rather subjective issue to try and reduce to the status of bickering. Some people on this board just can't seem to help themselves from what I've seen. Pity ain't it.
englishgibson
- 2010-09-26
Sanguine, you sure can live well on mainland on a FT's salary, but if you don't like the cheap local products that are mostly sold (pushed to you), you'll quickly get frustrated. There are fewer and fewer western products on mainland as local authorities promote their own businesses and production. If you walk into a bookshop, you'll find little or nothing that's from abroad. The local material for teaching English is so inadequate, but if you want to spend you money, you'll have to consider it. This comes with food, electrical appliances, sports equipment, clothes and so on and on. Some that are foreign branded are made on mainland and of a lower quality as local workers separate imported products from mainland. If you stay on for a longer period of time on mainland, you may spend more and more on such cheap local products questioning yourself why you have to buy them. REALLY, YOU GET PAID LITTLE TO SPEND LITTLE ON LITTLE. Cheers and beers that are still imported :)
Oldtimer
- 2010-09-26
Your post is a must for all FT's to read. Thanks for taking the time and the trouble to compose it. It flies in the face of those who say FT's in China are poorly paid. At least they can save a large chunk of their monthly salary if they watch what they buy, and avoid:
i) drinking at night clubs/karaoke bars/bars regularly.
ii)sleeping with ladies of the night.
ii)eating hamburgers and French fries etcetera at western chain restaurants too regularly.
iv) live in free accommodation provided by their employers. Just to add that most accommodation of that kind is perfectly acceptable to down to earth westerners, and much better than a Nairobi slum or a New York ghetto or a Parisian slum, even in the small backwater cities and county seats!
Sanguine
- 2010-09-26
Hmm, an interesting question. The truth is that you can live very well on what you make here, in most cases. In fact, most people who come to work here live better than they did in the west. The RMB has a lot of purchase power, not to mention that you make a lot more than the average Chinese. Living here comfortable is not usually a problem.
Now, saving money, that is another matter. Some people who come here will make 5,500 yuan, and only spend 500 to a thousand a month, only spending what they need to survive. That being the case, the answer is yes, you could save a fair amount here, if you want. However, you would not live so well. You would not be able to eat out hardly ever, you would not be able to really enjoy yourself, as you'd only be working, eating, and sleeping. If surviving is all that matters to you, you can save here.
Most foreigners are not able to save too much during their time here, that's just the simple truth. They may save enough to buy a ticket home, because it's unlikely you'll get that end of contract airfare, no matter what the school may say to the contrary.
If it sounds like I am painting a dim picture, the reason for that is that it is dim, very dim. If you were to go back even 5 years, things were a little better, but still crap. However schools routinely gave an end of contract bonus, usually equivalent to a months pay. No longer.
The answer to both is yes, and if you are prepared to sacrifice you could save a fair amount here. You also can find good work, your odds of doing so being much better if you work for a University or some other public institution. The pay won't be as much in this case, but you will likely have more perks, and better living conditions.
My advice would be to go to Japan. You'll make more than twice as much as you would in China, at least generally speaking, and you won't have to worry very much about being screwed over. not that you could not make large amounts in China, however in most cases this only happens if you work for a "real" international school. These places often pay 18,000 rmb or more a month. If you encounter someplace calling itself an international school and they only pay 6,000 a month, then it's not an international school. Many places call themselves international schools to seem more prestigious and of better quality. Also, real international schools are not common, and rarely advertise, as many such places find teachers through other employees, or word of mouth. They also have less turnover, so many people stay on longer because the job is of better quality than the norm. Consequently, finding such a job is almost impossible, so were I you I would not consider such a position as a realistic option at this time.
I'd advise going elsewhere, but if you have your heart set on coming here, only go to work at a public school, and never ever find a job using a recruiter. They are simply middle men taking a chunk of money that should inevitably be going into your pocket. They are useless and only exist because a lot of schools are either lazy, uneducated in regards to foreigners and how to find them, and don't know how to use the simple tool that is the internet. Or they are a school of such terrible quality that they have to resort to a recruiter, as recruiters generally help employ those who can't be employed anywhere else meaning legal employment with the proper work permit.
The odds are against finding a great job here, others may disagree with me on this point. Most will agree the environment here is not so great. Com to China at your own peril I say, and be ever vigilant before, and during your entire stay here, especially as a female teacher. If you come here alone that comes with a lot of it's own perils. Many Chinese bosses see a single female employee as giving them license to hit and molest them simply because they are single and living alone. It seems like this is often viewed as invitation, and I have read far too many accounts of such things happening, and know this not to be a uncommon phenomenon.
Bottom line, go elsewhere, but if you must come here, research everything up front, from where you will be living to who you will be working for. Also, do not come here without the proper visa. If you do this, and only work for a public school, your odds are a lot better. Hope I've been of some small help.
I've been working in Latin American and then the Middle East. I'm highly qualified with 10 years as a professional teacher. I'd love to experience China but from what I've been learning the pay will never be much. is there anyone on here who would differ with this information? I want to be able to live decent and save.
LOVE to hear from Experienced professors of English and other teaching positions from China. Thanks