Eu'er
- 2010-11-19
You know your onions re China.
@ SS: I don't consider myself an old china hand, and that term implies someone who likes and enjoys living in China, let's just say I got burnt more times than I can remember, esp. so in HZ and by HZ people. They would f*** anyone or anything, if they thought it would increase their investment savings account or stock options:( I dated a couple of girls from there, experiences I deeply regret, and the recruiters there are untrustworthy to say the least, perhaps the worst of all China. And it has gone very downhill, the west lake is polluted, the subway system still wasn't finished when I was last there, the taxis/traffic situation still very bad, and some of the rudest/stuck up people anywhere in China.
I'm teaching at a private university in Dongbei. Some of my students have come a long way
from Hangzhou to study here. Their parents are not among the richest of Hangzhou's
citizens, and can afford the tuiton fees here, which are definitely much lower than they
would be where they come from for an equivalent education. And yes, they are much more
money-orientated than local students studying here. In my view, students from Dongbei
are friendlier and more honest than those from Hangzhou and the like. Yet, the latter's
parents are above the former's in terms of social class!
I know a couple of guys in Songyuan and I've met a few people from the north east. IMHO, i am not sure that they are any better, certainly more friendly perhaps, but honesty...tough one?
Silversalver
- 2010-11-18
Hangzhou definitely should be in there, but even I got fed up of that place, same mentality as Shanghai people, money, money money....but hey it's china...what do you expect?
You know your onions re China.
I'm teaching at a private university in Dongbei. Some of my students have come a long way from Hangzhou to study here. Their parents are not among the richest of Hangzhou's citizens, and can afford the tuiton fees here, which are definitely much lower than they would be where they come from for an equivalent education. And yes, they are much more money-orientated than local students studying here. In my view, students from Dongbei are friendlier and more honest than those from Hangzhou and the like. Yet, the latter's parents are above the former's in terms of social class!
Eu'er
- 2010-11-18
@ Ambientman:
I agree SZ isn't the best city in the world. But it isn't the worst either. Granted, pollution is a problem, but consider ease of getting to HK/Macau for visa runs, shopping, and so on, and it is quite worthwhile.
Plus SZ has pretty good nightlife if that's your bag of tea, a big expat community in Shekou.
Changsha, agree and disagree. Everyone tells me good things about Xiamen. Hangzhou definitely should be in there, but even I got fed up of that place, same mentality as Shanghai people, money, money money....but hey it's china...what do you expect?
Riverina
- 2010-11-17
Good post, sir! I suppose Xi'an is attractive for foreign historian types, of which I'm definitely not one. There are also some good third-tier cities, like Luzhou of Sichuan and Baoji of Shaanxi - they're surrounded by good scenery and have a decent variety of Chinese restaurants, as well as decent infrastructure and clean hospitals. The problem is they are few and far between. Handan is certainly not one of them!
Ambientman
- 2010-11-17
You are correct in basically all that you say, but I actually kind of liked Xian.
Very quick opinions on non-Hebei cities:
As for southern cities, Xiamen and Kunming are the two best cities, not only in the south, but really, in China, in my opinion. You probably can't go wrong working in Guilin either, as it is at least very clean, by Chinese standards. In fact, outside of the touristy places, it is not so bad and I even kind of liked it when I volunteered there. Changsha, in Hunan, was a boring city, with the most impolite Chinese people I have met in all of China. Avoid Chongqing at all costs as well, as it is literally, the worst smelling city I have ever been to in my life, and really dirty and polluted. Chengdu, however, is not so bad. It is a little over rated, but it might be towards the end of my top ten, if I had to choose cities. Up north, I would go with Qingdao or Dalian I suppose. I would also give Shenzhen and Guangzhou a big fat miss. Don't bother. Beijing is cool....to visit, not live. Not missing anything in Shanghai, go outside that crap city to Hangzhou or Suzou.
Top ten cities
1. Xiamen
2. Kunming
3. Guilin
4. Qingdao
5. Suzhou
6. Dalian
7. Hangzhou
8. Chengdu
9. Zhuhai
10. Again, call me crazy, but I liked Xian (and Nanjing is tied for tenth, despite its summers). maybe that is because there might not be ten cities that I would live in, in China, and I need to include a tenth, or maybe its that I have not been to enough places. Maybe something else.
Cities to avoid
1. Shijiazhuang (like the plague)
2. Handan
3. Wuhan (especially in summer)
4. (If it weren't for the winter) Harbin (would not be here!)
5. Tianjin
6. Changsha
7. Chongqing
8. Linfen
9. Datong
10. Shenzhen
Riverina
- 2010-11-17
Qinghuandao is more than likely the most pleasant Hebei city - at least it's on the coast, unlike the rest. For vibrancy, Tangshan would be my choice. As for anywhere else in drought-stricken Hebei, I'd give them all a miss. Shijiazhuang is one of the most polluted and boring of China's provincial capitols. Others I've been to that are just as dirty, drought-stricken and boring are Taiyuan, Xi'an and Lanzhou. Jinan is okay though, but nothing special! As for the environment and vibrancy of the provincial capitols of the south of China, I can't comment as I've never taught there.
Ambientman
- 2010-11-17
You are right to make this post. I lived in Shijiazhuang, Hebei which is one of the "better" cities in the province. But I use the word "better" very loosely as it is a very dirty, polluted, ugly, drab, soulless city (and even province). As one Chinese women from Guangxi (correctly) put it, when I asked her if she had ever been to Hebei, she said "Oh THAT place, it is just dirt and mud!" She is basically correct! I think living in any city in Hebei, a very under developed province, is putting your health at risk, but that is just my opinion. I know other foreigners often got sick living in Shijiazhuang.
Shijiazhuang IS the capital of Hebei, and is likely the most diverse city in Hebei, not that it is saying much. Handan is even worse, in every way, and more boring, dirtier, soulless and drab. Vibrant is the last word I would use to describe this place and after I took an invite from a student for five days to visit the city, I never wanted to go back again.
Sanguine
- 2010-11-16
Oh, and the salary would be 4000 RMB a month for 16 classes of 45 minutes each per week, but no salary for the summer vacation of 2011. However, I'd get a travel allowance of 2200 Yuan just before that vacation starts, plus air fare reimbursement of 6000 RMB on completion of my 10 month contract in early January of 2012. I reckon it's a fair deal for an unqualified teacher like me, but I don't want to live in a city that has few foreigners.
Well Percy, I would have to say the offer is crap. I have known many a teacher with no degree starting off making 5,500, 6,000 yuan a month. Certainly nothing less than 5,000 yuan is acceptable. I would accept no less than 5,500 were I you. I also would not take a recruiters word for anything. They are in part why it's paying so little, the school must pay the recruiter a big whopping fee, and guess where that comes from. 4,000 for 16 hours of teaching is also crap, big time crap. Even if this was a University position, jobs that generally have some few perks, the salary is way on the low side. I would not accept this position period.
You can do a lot better, even without a degree. 4,000 yuan is a rip off, you need to value yourself a lot more. The school makes the same amount of money off of you, degree or no, so why should you be paid less? Believe me, plenty of other people without a degree are being paid a lot more than 4,000. In fact, I can't imagine anyone settling for such a low salary.
As for the other things the recruiter said, trust none of it. They will tell you what they think you want to hear to seal the deal. Number of classes, how many foreigners are in that town, all of it can and often will be bogus info. Until you talk to the school you really know nothing concrete, and anything a recruiter tells you is automatically suspect.
You can find work without a recruiter, there are plenty of job boards out there. Take your time, and research things, but don't, don't get a job through a recruiter if you can help it, and you can.
Visas
- 2010-11-16
Thing is, I have no university degree, so my options for employment as a foreign teacher are limited. The deadline for my acceptance of the job will come and go in a few days from now. I wish to make an informed decision before the deadline is up, so please reply swiftly if you are teaching in Handan at present. Oh, and the salary would be 4000 RMB a month for 16 classes of 45 minutes each per week, but no salary for the summer vacation of 2011. However, I'd get a travel allowance of 2200 Yuan just before that vacation starts, plus air fare reimbursement of 6000 RMB on completion of my 10 month contract in early January of 2012. I reckon it's a fair deal for an unqualified teacher like me, but I don't want to live in a city that has few foreigners.
At the risk of sounding like one of the wall street interviewers in Cocktail speaking to Tom Cruise:
"You should go to college!"
A degree is pretty much a pre-requisite for picking up a cushy,decent public gig and non negotiable for Hong Kong.
Not saying don't go, just think it over more carefully, 4,000 isn't a great deal of money, some chinese earn far more, and RMB is worthless in the EU/USA.
Cheers
v
Rin
- 2010-11-16
I live in Handan. I teach here. What school are you looking at? Vibrant it is not and if you want any Western commodities it is not that cheap either.. same as the rest of China? You will be living pay cheque to pay cheque on 4000 RMB. There are few foreigners here and not much to do. Avoid, avoid, avoid.
Rin
- 2010-11-16
Hahahaha... High end? You are kidding? Handan is the dirtiest, poorest city I've visited so far. As for not getting stared at? Every day people point and shout Laowai at me. They do that everywhere though... not just here. The food is not tasty as you said and many people get food poisoning. Starbucks? Tesco? Where?
Familiar With Handan
- 2010-11-16
Dear Percy,
Handan has some big plusses and some big minuses.
One big minus is the level of personal safety in the city. As a very general rule, Chinese cities tend to be at least rather safe for foreigners. Handan is one of two cities in China where I actually have had foreign teacher friends mugged in broad daylight. One was mugged when coming out of a bank after making a deposit and forced, at knife point, to go to an ATM and withdraw money. It's a prosperous city in the one of the poorer provinces of the country so due care and diligence are in order.
Also Handan is an exceptionally, exceptionally industrialized city, even by Chinese standards and that should tell you something about the level of air pollution in the city. Also, in terms of Chinese cities, it tends to be a little not-so-clean.
On the other hand, the city is flush with money. There is a huge building boom going on everywhere in the city. There are cranes all over. You can be sure that the city has money because very high-end luxury product shops like Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Armani have actually set up shops in the newer malls. You can find Western amenities in the city and there are the usual number of Pizza Huts, KFC's, McDonalds, etc. Western products can be had through TESCO, etc., etc. and otherwise you can order them online.
It's a city of generally wide boulevard and surprisingly enough, it's rather green. There are not a lot of foreigners, for a fact, but you will not be stared at consistently and have fingers pointed at you with the "laowai, laowai" remark. The taxis are metered and go by the meter. It's a rather big city.
There are lots of nice Starbuck's, coffee houses, etc., etc. Handan regional cooking is rather bland by Chinese standards -- you will need to look hard to find a really god restaurant unless you like roast duck -- one of the local specialities.
Somehow, somehow with your salary and hours, I think that the agent is trying to flog you off to one of the universities in the city. If that's the case, be careful. They are really, really located on the fringes of the city, far from everything, and you will spend much time in a taxi. Frankly, I just don't know how you will be able to make it in Handan on RMB 4,000 per month. Even by local Handan standards, that's not a lot of money.
You could do better elsewhere, even with no degree.
Hey, I just got offered my first teaching job in China. It is in Handan city of Hebei province. According to my Chinese agent, that city is vibrant as well as being home to quite a lot of foreigners. He also says the cost of living there is on the low side. However, I suspect he'll tell any foreigner anything in order to sell a foreign face. So, some feedback about Handan would be welcome.
Thing is, I have no university degree, so my options for employment as a foreign teacher are limited. The deadline for my acceptance of the job will come and go in a few days from now. I wish to make an informed decision before the deadline is up, so please reply swiftly if you are teaching in Handan at present. Oh, and the salary would be 4000 RMB a month for 16 classes of 45 minutes each per week, but no salary for the summer vacation of 2011. However, I'd get a travel allowance of 2200 Yuan just before that vacation starts, plus air fare reimbursement of 6000 RMB on completion of my 10 month contract in early January of 2012. I reckon it's a fair deal for an unqualified teacher like me, but I don't want to live in a city that has few foreigners.