Yo. Mic - ESL discussion

Lighten up.
Korea is notorious for booze and prostitution.
keep your politically correct histrionics in check>
you seem like a forum nazi>

I don't know...... - ESL discussion

Have fun guessing.....

CUBA, CUBA, CUBA!!!!
I dream of paradise..... CUBA!!!

Demand ensures jobs for "cowboys" - ESL discussion

I spent Saturday at an EFL conference in Busan and one of the speakers (Dr Li Minsheng) cited some research he had done on Chinese students satisfaction with foreign teachers, after 1 year 54% were satisfied (bad score for the teachers), after 2 years, even worse, only 42%, down to 36% after 3 years and only 8% of students satisfied with their foreign teacher after 4 years with a foreign teacher. He noted several reasons, but very importantly, unprepared, inexperienced and untrained teachers lacking in cultural awareness were his biggest target.

Sadly, the demand for English teachers in Korea and I imagine China ensures that schools will have to hire the ESL cowboys simply to have a "teacher" at the front of the room. My guess is that the high levels of dissatifaction will eventually lead to a realization that blonde hair + blue eyes does not automatically mean students will learn English, and a shift to more and more homegrown teachers for these markets.

I trust that I will either be my own school director before this happens, or have such a fabulous reputation I will not be replaced. I think most long-term teachers need not fear this change, if indeed it does ever happen.

what about it? - ESL discussion

Yeah, I wrote that, and I have the proof to back up my points.

Did you read the artcile about the angry South Koreans....? not too happy about some of the ESL teachers......

Not my opinion only, but the same opinion of very many.

"Say NO to Drugs, and Say NO to the Americanization of the world!"

Not me! - ESL discussion

I wasn't 'forcing my opinion' on anyone.You have the wrong person!
It was another poster who was forcing their opinion on ME,after I responded to the following:-

Now could you tell me wether you think the person who posted the above was forcing their opinion on anybody else or not?

Also if I was forcing my opinion on the poster of the above message could I not accuse you of forcing your opinion on me?

My dictionary defines a redneck as a, 'Politically conservative working-class white from Southern America'.

Well,I definitely don't fit the above profile.For a start I'm not even American!

<"let Men be Men" also makes you sound like some gun toting, beer swigging redneck American.

Again I ask you who's forcing their opinion?

You sound like an American - ESL discussion

I think anyone reading your posts would assume you are American. Your arrogance and need to force your opinion on anyone who listens displays traits common to Americans. As well, the fact that "let Men be Men" also makes you sound like some gun toting, beer swigging redneck American.

good points, but..... - ESL discussion

Good points, but the truth must be told. Facts are facts, I don't make them confrontational.

I still don't like the "so" called teachers coming here. They can stay at home if they want to party. About the Chinese people who run English schools, they see these kids as the "corruption" in the business. We often complain about the corrupt Chinese employer, but what about the corrupt employee, who is just some college kid who knows nothing about teaching and does a poor job at it, but he wants to get away from mummy and daddy, so he pretends to be an ESL teacher to come to China or South Korea!!!

Actually, China was like North Korea not so long ago. How can you really judge a place that you have never been to? American people used to say, and still often do, that China was some horrible place of starvation and Despotism, but now, we know that was false and absolutely ridiculous.(You must admit, the CPC of China has done a good job, they have only been the government since 1949, and they have over a billion mouths to feed, they have done a pretty good job for the amount of people the must be concerned with.) If the DPRK has taught us any lesson, it is that, if you have the atom bomb, you don't have to worry about the USA "trespassing on your property". You must admit, they have guts to stand up to the USA like that. Also, the trade volume between China and DPRK and increased dramatically, so on both sides, they are doing well, and benefiting from free trade.

Don't fall victim to the US propaganda, remember, the strongest country in the world, also has the best propaganda machine. If you ask anyone from France, Canada, or Russia, what is Cuba like, they would say it is a wonderful little place in paradise, but your average American, whom has never been there, would say something negative and ridiculous, not based on any factual information, or base it on something that unrelated that happened over 40 years ago. But, I must comment, at least the Cubans get FREE and excellent modern health-care, poor Americans, they get nothing free, their grandfathers and grandmothers have to pay $200 for a small bottle of heart medicine they need to live plus $175 for a bottle of arthritis meds, and don't forget the doctors bills, because we must pay the doctor to prescribe us medicines we need to live, and they can barely afford it with their small and dwindling social security checks. Now whom do you pity?

Better off without that job - ESL discussion

It can be frustrating, I am 42 and know what it's like to be "too old," but really, you probably wouldn't want to work for a boss who doesn't care about teaching, just drinking.

Keep looking, you'll find something (better).

wrong again.... - ESL discussion

Actually... your points are valid, but wrongly placed. (also your grammar can use a little work,IS is for singular, ARE is for plural)
<"Here's a few examples. "> you wrote

Okay, all the things you mentioned are the effects of capitalism. Which was brought here when the country opened up and decided to add capitalist elements to a socialist system.(which was due to the powerful economic attacks mainly from to the USA and NATO) With capitalism comes corruption. This is because capitalism can't manage the economy and worker's rights as well as a socialist system can. A perfect example is the United States of America, the strongest country in the world, they can't manage their corporations, remember ENRON???

You make me laugh, you fear Chinese thieves? They are weak and very afraid of foreigners. Compare the Chinese thieves to the American thieves......
Chinese thieves only pickpocket, petty thievery, while, the American thieves will beat you and take your car.

Within almost every police force, there are some forms of corruption. Mainly a trait of capitalist corruption. If you don't believe me, then compare the amount of corruption between:
1. a pure socialist country: DPRK (N. Korea)
2. a fascist socialist(nationalist or religious) country: Third Reich
3. a socialist country that has become more or is now capitalist: Russian Federation
4. a pure capitalist country: Columbia

Now you tell me in order, from the least corruption to the most..... guess what....
Now you understand China's situation better.

About the corruption in the schools, it is normal throughout the world. In some places more than others, China is no exception.

Personal morality such as what the girls are doing, I can guarantee you, if a survey was taken, that you would see far fewer girls in China doing so-called immoral things than what happens in America. You would also find that in large cities with a high percentage of foreigners, such as Shanghai or Beijing, it is more prevalent, than compared with other cities in China. If you took a survey of premarital sex, drinking, and staying out late, please tell me which country do you think would rank the highest:
1. United States of America
2. Yemen
3. ROK South Korea
4. DPRK North Korea
5. Kenya

And please, don't waste my time with your childish personal insults. You don't know me well enough to take it to that level.

Get your head out of the sand - ESL discussion

> It is a different kind of corruption. It is not the same and at least
> they are VERY discreet about it.

Oh! sorry,and I thought corruption was corruption.So as the East practices a different kind of corruption it's NOT corruption then,and of course if they're 'discreet' about it,then that's ok,it means they're not really corrupt then!Lol!

> Again, it was very calm, very discreet little amounts of corruption
> going on here. It was nothing compared to the garbage that happens in
> England and the United States. Many Expats came here to escape the
> immorale and uncultured ways in modern Western society.

Do I have to say this 5000 times? THERE IS NO LESS CORRUPTION IN CHINA THAN THERE IS IN THE WEST,IF ANYTHING THERE'S MUCH MORE IN THE EAST!

In China there is corruption in VIRTUALLY EVERY WALK OF LIFE.Here's a few examples.

1.Almost universal cheating on exams in schools all over China!

2.School employers everywhere lying ,breaking contracts,cheating,threatening,intimidating and exploiting not only their Western employees but their native ones too!

3.Managers and directors of fairly big companies in China on relatively low wages able to live very expensive lifestyles while their hardworking employees don't get even 1 mao of their sorry pittance of a wage for often months on end! (I wonder why?).

4. Countless Shops,hotels restaurants and businesses all over China charging foreigners way over the odds for goods and services(actually they often cheat their fellow countrymen too).This is so prevalent that even after more than two years in China,I often hide around the corner while my girlfriend buys things on my behalf.

5.An organised crime syndicate of beggars on the streets all over China cheating well meaning people out of their hard earnad cash.

6.Bribed policeman who allow, and even encorage thieves and pickpockets to steal from people on the streets.Sometimes the police actually stand across the road monitoring this waiting for their percentage.Me and my Chinese girlfriend actually witnessed this outside Shenzhen station and were told the facts by locals.

7.The country is swamped with inferior fake designer goods.

The above are just a few examples of corruption in China.I didn't want to get into this kind of debate ,but it's you who mentioned corruption first!

> Chinese and Muslims have something in common, the men do go out late,
> and sometimes drink (most Muslims are not supposed to and don't

All men from EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD have something in common ,many of them like to go out late and drink.

Most unmarried Asian girls are home
> before midnight, sometimes before 11pm, and if not , Mom and Dad will
> be calling. Alot different from a twenty-something year old from
> England or USA.

The above is certainly NOT always true,and even if it was it certainly would'nt prove that Asian girls are any more moral than Western girls.The fact is they do the same things .In fact the reason many don't stay out late is for the simple reason you yourself mentioned ,Mummy starts calling.If you don't believe this do some research on what Asian girls get up to when they're away from Mummy and Daddy working or studying in another city.

It's time you took off your rose tinted glasses and started to REALLY look and see that there is no difference in morals between the East and the West.
If countries in the East expect high standards from foreigners then they need to show a much better example and clean their act up fast!

different... and discreet - ESL discussion

It is a different kind of corruption. It is not the same and at least they are VERY discreet about it.

The People's Republic of China is a far better and more honest government than the United States of America.

I can name about 100 differences.

While a man in America is arrested for killing his two daughters, a man in China is arrested for petty gambling!

While the Chinese government won't let you vote in the country if you are not a member of their party, the United States of America will put you on a terrorist watch list if you are member of other parties other than the popular two. The United States will put you on a "no fly" list and a terrorist watch list if you support the freedom of imformation act.

Again, it was very calm, very discreet little amounts of corruption going on here. It was nothing compared to the garbage that happens in England and the United States. Many Expats came here to escape the immorale and uncultured ways in modern Western society. We also came to escape the unconstitutional and undemocratic destruction of our countries. We don't want anyone to bring those things here. It is prefered that people blend in and respect the country. Meaning, learn their language, respect their ways and traditions. Don't bring the Western trash over here, it is unwanted.

Chinese and Muslims have something in common, the men do go out late, and sometimes drink (most Muslims are not supposed to and don't drink) but the WOMEN don't ,especially unmarried women, and if they do, they are considered like prostitutes(exception would be married women with their huspands). Most unmarried Asian girls are home before midnight, sometimes before 11pm, and if not , Mom and Dad will be calling. Alot different from a twenty-something year old from England or USA.

No more space! - ESL discussion

> I wish the majority were good honest teachers. But, you see many are
> not.

> Many of the REAL expats left our countries and came to the East to
> get away from all the corruption and garbage of the West.

Unfortunatley shortly after the expats arrived they found an equal amount of garbage and corruption already in place produced by the natives!

Now we have
> people bring it back over here with them when they come for their
> "visits".

Those who bought their garbage over here from the West SHOULD take it back.Most of the space for garbage and corruption is taken up by the locals!

you go back.. we don't want to be Americanized - ESL discussion

You go back. Quit sticking up for people who are negatively affecting Asian life. You perverts need to stay in your own countries, don't come here and take advantage of these kind people.

It was much better here befor all the young Westerners unskilled ESL teachers came and ruined it. In fact, most REAL expats and ESL teachers, left their home countries to get away from the ways of the West. We hate it, we don't want it, we left it, that is why we are EXpats, but then all of a sudden, guys like you, who are not real EXpats, but just "backpackers" come here and bring the same trash from the West that we are trying to get away from!

No actually I am right.... this is why Muslim countries don't like Americans. This is why Puerto Rico doesn't want to become an American state. This is why Iran and DPRK (North Korea) don't want to open up to the West. They do much better without Western trash and college transients from the West.

read this article:

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/353.html

Not your business - ESL discussion

It's a fact of life that in EVERY country young people in particular like to party.This is a natural instinct,and young people in the East are no different.If there is any difference it's that they are more discreet about it,that's all.

It's not necessary for most graduates to come to the East if they want to party.There's generally not much to stop most of them partying a lot, back in their own countries.

Having a good time is a PART of life for most people,and as I said before that's natural!For young people it may generally be a bigger part of life,but these inclinations are felt by most people whatever country they may come from including those in the East!

> Again, show some respect for other cultures. If you want to drink and
> have the life of the party, stay in your own country.
It is not your business to come here and do those kinds of things.

It is also not YOUR business to question the motives of those from the West who choose to come here to teach English.You have no right to try to ocuppy some sort of moral high ground.You are NOT the guardian of our consciences.
If you want to preach, stay in your own country and preach.

They hire you to
> teach English to school children, not to go out and get drunk at
> night and so on. Ask the Chinese teachers what they do in their free
> time, I seriously doubt any of them will say they stay out late and
> go to bars...and so on... If you want to be like that, come as a
> tourist, spend your money, then leave.

Of course they won't SAY that they go to bars and suchlike because it's generally not the Chinese way to admit these things!It doesn't however mean that they don't do it!

> China has enough problems, the last thing the country needs is some
> immorale foreigners running around the place like it is a University
> Fraternity party.

Also the last thing China needs is are judgemental
pompus,patronising preachers like yourself.What adults do in their personal life is their business, not yours.
Go back to your own country if you want to behave like that!

not so... - ESL discussion

You think the Chinese drink much? Don't make me laugh, they drink very little compared to Europeans.

If you have been to more places in China than just Beijing and Shanghai, you would know how Chinese people really are. It is hard to tell in a city such as Shanghai which has so much foreign influences and businesses that tailor to them.

Yes, often drinking is used by the wealthy as a way to get business negotiations flowing.

Boys will be Boys, NOT REALLY. It is basically a bunch of young graduates who are too afraid to be a man and work hard in their own countries, or they can't get a real job in their own countries because they chose a stupid major like anthropology. So they come here for a year to get away from their parents and University life. Unfortunately, many don't spend their time wisely while in a wonderful foreign country, rather they drink it away just like in the University days. They are just travelers and confused young people who are using the ESL business in Asia to support their backbacking adventures. Shame on them! Go home! Don't come to Asia to do drugs, party, or drink. Even for the selfish reasons, like beer in China sucks, so go to Germany and teach if you want to drink, okay.....!!!

I am glad the Koreans got a little tougher on the foreigners. Soon China will also follow suit. The visa requirements will get tougher each year as an attempt to weed out the unwanted and unskilled teachers.

Noyes - ESL discussion

I don't agree that your average Chinese chap (especially the wealthy ones) drink less. They go to bars and drink like the world is ending. I have never seen people drink in such a vulgar fashion in all my days and countries.
That said, most Chinese aren't that well off, but they still go and get totally wasted in KTV bars.

I agree that uni students and most girls/women here generally drink less (and mostly quite a lot less) than their western counterparts.

That said, there is nothing wrong with going out and partying. Boys will be boys!

be a gentleman... - ESL discussion

They drink far less and in a different way than Westerners. They go to a restaurant and enjoy some beers with their dinner, usually in the company of their wives, and they go home before midnight. Big difference from going to some bar and looking to do some not so respectable things.

No, you should be a gentleman, that's a real man. If you can't be one, then stay in your own country. And if you are a real man, then you would have the guts to refuse a drink when you don't want one, rather than being controled by others.

No, actually, if you compare the weekend activities of an average Chinese University student and the average American or Australian (etc...) student, there is a big difference.

There are the peasants from the Western farm provinces of China, they have no manners and a certainly not gentlemen. They are looked down upon by most other Chinese people as animals, not people. Maybe you refer to them as getting drunk. They do it as a group of migrant workers, a way to show comradery, they are home by midnight.

Again, show some respect for other cultures. If you want to drink and have the life of the party, stay in your own country. It is not your business to come here and do those kinds of things. They hire you to teach English to school children, not to go out and get drunk at night and so on. Ask the Chinese teachers what they do in their free time, I seriously doubt any of them will say they stay out late and go to bars...and so on... If you want to be like that, come as a tourist, spend your money, then leave.

China has enough problems, the last thing the country needs is some immorale foreigners running around the place like it is a University Fraternity party.

laughable - ESL discussion

I've been in China for over two years now and during that time, I've witnessed as much drinking and partying by the Chinese, if not more, than I've seen back home in the West.

If the locals want Westerners to show more respect in their country they need to show a better example.
You don't know the amount of times I've been implored with the words 'ganbei'to sink the contents of my glass,be it full of beer or even baijiu.
If anything many school employers ENCOURAGE us 'laowais' to join them in getting rat-arsed drunk.

Can you let me know what the 'kind and lovely people'get up to every weekend all over China in Karaoke bars?Is this what westerners are supposed to respect?

If wanting a drink and the company of a woman amounts to bringing poison to the East then it makes no sense because by that reasoning China has enough poison of it's own.

Let men be MEN! Wether Chinese ,Korean,Western or whatever.We're teachers,and they're employers and businessmen,not choirboys!

Are you real? - ESL discussion

What makes you so self-righteous?
I suppose Korean men don't drink beer and chase women.lol.

Lighten up man.What do you do when you're not working?Get real!
You'd better get back to your stamp collecting and knitting!

1.9 million - ESL discussion

In Response To: Info on Work in KOREA - (Shayne)

Expect a salary of 1.9 million, plus a small furnished apartment. You can live on 10,000 a day for simple food and no drink, or you could spend all your pay on alcohol and women.

As for what school and where, I suggest you hop on a plane and come see for yourself.