TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent San Migs - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

Would it be inappropriate for me to ask them for photos of the accommodation they provide?

I reckon it's ok to ask, why not? You got your family with you after all!

Good luck man!

#2 Parent Magister - 2012-02-20
Re: which job to take, if any

Ask for as much info (inc. photos) as you want on the school, housing, contract details, etc.

In my experience (both as an employee and employer) people are happiest in their work when their expectations for the job meet the reality of the job. Part of the responsibility for meeting expectations is of course the job of the school who should ensure that they meet their end of the bargain and provide the teacher with indepth info about the role but also the employee should do as much research and probing into the position as possible so that they know what they are in for.

#3 Parent Curious - 2012-02-19
Photos

Most teachers ask photos. Please do. It's important.

#4 Parent David - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

Looking back at the statement I made, I agree that it doesn't equal the sum of its parts. I guess what I meant was that I am ideally looking for a stable position that I could be happy with long-term (so wouldn't want to go somewhere that i knew was only temporary just for the money) but, worst case scenario, it wouldn't be a tragedy having the Macau job not work out and having to find something else. At least with the Macau job, I know that my kids' education is being covered while I'm there.You are right, though, that I should look into the feasibility of saving anything there on that salary. A lot of this has to do with whether or not I'm happy with their accommodation or if I have to find something else. Would it be inappropriate for me to ask them for photos of the accommodation they provide?

#5 Parent San Migs - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

and so has developing an increasing balance in my bank account. I think I'll go with the Macau job. If it isn't all I had hoped for then at least I'll have experienced a year living in Macau

Then these three parts of increasing bank balance, macau job, and a year living in Macau don't add up to the sum of their parts.

If you are looking to save with a family, screw the experience, head to the gulf and work your nut off there for 2 years or so.

A mate of mine saved 20,000 UK Pounds in one year in the Kingdom of head choppers, may not be your cup of tsing tao or green tea, but there is money to be made, esp for guys with a family.

How much do you expect to save in Macau which is more expensive than the mainland is the question, and presumably you want a life as well?

#6 Parent David - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

Thanks you two for all the helpful advice. I've definitely gone through my time on living on a pittance -- might have even been one of those who would compete about how little I could spend -- but now with a family I find myself with different priorities. Good accommodation and general comfort have become important to me and so has developing an increasing balance in my bank account. I think I'll go with the Macau job. If it isn't all I had hoped for then at least I'll have experienced a year living in Macau and can move onto something better once my contract expires.

#7 Parent San Migs - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

I've even seen some groups of teachers get quite competitive over how little they can spend a month and i personally enjoy being able to actual build a bank balance rather than just making ends meet as i was when i left the West.

The guy I am referring to was basically an american hobo with one set of clothes, who didnt believe in using his washing machine, and apart from an expensive looking camera and some dollar savings, just had himself, his knapsack...and no wife.

Let them squabble...it has to be better than being on the dole back in the west for them. They wouldn't be employable elsewhere.

#8 Parent Magister - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

I agree that there are many FTs in China who can and do live on a pitance. I've even seen some groups of teachers get quite competitive over how little they can spend a month and i personally enjoy being able to actual build a bank balance rather than just making ends meet as i was when i left the West.

But I still feel that if you give a Western family of 4 1000RMB for housing allowance then they are probably not going to be happy with the apartment that they can get. It's unlikely to have modern fixture and fittings (probably no western toilet), adequate climate control (good air con, decent windows, etc.), probably won't have hot water available in the kitchen and in general it won't be clean to the degree that most Westerners consider something/somewhere to be clean. To get an apartment to standard then you'll need to dip into your wage.

It just sounds like the Principal David spoke to in Zhengzhou hasn't given due consideration to what a professional from the West moving to China with their family would want to hear. As someone in a similar boat (i only have 1 child) the most important things i want an employer to provide are accomodation suitable for my situation and education expenses for my child. Equally i wouldn't want the Principal to haggle over every last penny and then say that i have to make a decision now - it's a pretty big call when you decide to move your entire family to a foreign location.

#9 Parent San Migs - 2012-02-19
Re: which job to take, if any

but then i don't believe that the average Westerner would be happy living the average Chinese lifestyle

I will agree with what you wrote about the weather in Henan....dismal, to say the least.

However not all westerners maybe like you say.

Some like cheap beer, a simple lunch, and living cheaply and saving, even on 5,500 rmb a month.

Needs and wants. Some like the western materialist lifestyle of always eating western food and so on....and then wonder why they don't save much, even on 10,000 rmb a month.

Others live within their means, and save on less.

#10 Parent Magister - 2012-02-18
Re: which job to take, if any

Certainly the Principle in Zhengzhou is right to say that 16000RMB a month is more than what the average Chinese family in Zhengzhou would make but then i don't believe that the average Westerner would be happy living the average Chinese lifestyle. 1000RMB is not going to cover the price of a nice apartment suitable for 4 people. You'll be spending around a third of your total salary on housing your family in a modern apartment, then if you decide to send your kids into private education it's going to cost you a reasonable sum of money.

I've been to Zhengzhou several types and haven't noticed that the air pollution is particularly bad just the same as most larger cities. Still in the winter your more likely to get sick and the summer you probably won't see a blue sky for a couple of months. There doesn't seem a great deal to do and see in Zhengzhou itself, it's mainly just a business and transport hub for the province.

Macau is going to be more expensive to live in than Zhengzhou (I've not lived there myself but have visited it twice). However, if they are offering you an apartment and schooling for your children then it sounds like a better deal IMHO. Also Macau is probably going to be less of a culture shock than living on the mainland - more English speakers, better services, better lifestyle in general.

David - 2012-02-18
which job to take, if any

I have two job positions that I'm considering, and I was wondering if anybody has any advice, either about the financial aspect or the environment I'd be living in. I am married with two kids, so I'm especially interested if anybody has some insights into whether or not the salaries would be enough to raise a family on (including decent schooling) and which would be the best environment for kids. I'll also try to explain the positions themselves in case anybody has any incite into them. I don't want to include the school names, because I'm assuming schools probably do searches for their own name, and I don't really want them to see what I've posted. Here are the two positions:

1. A position as a secondary school English instructor at an International school in Macau that pays 20,000 Patacas (between 15,000 and 16,000 RMB) and will also provide accommodation and free schooling for one of my children. By international school, I believe they mean that they follow an international curriculum and their instruction is in English. I think that the far majority of their students are Chinese. Their English website was lacking some basic information, such as class size and tuition fees, which I thought seemed a little unprofessional. However, it could also be that they just didn't get very many non-Chinese students, so they concentrated more fully on their Chinese site, which I cannot read. The lady who I talked to about the position, though, seemed friendly and informative.

2. A position as an Academic English instructor to high school and college students who plan to study abroad. This position is in Zhengzhou, pays 15,000 RMB + 1000 RMB accommodation allowance. A possible red flag for this position is that, during the interview, the employer asked what my salary expectations were, and he seemed inconvenienced by them. He spent half an hour trying to explain to me (in almost whiny tones) how cheap it is to live in Zhengzhou (telling me what the 'local' salaries are, and so forth) and, once he agreed to send me an offer including the salary, terms, and conditions, he wanted me to promise to get back to him ASAP to tell him if I would accept the position. Also, I know people complain about the air pollution in Zhengzhou, and, having never lived anywhere with air pollution issues, I was wondering how serious of an issue it really is. What does the air pollution really do to you?

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