TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent englishgibson - 2012-11-01
Re: Regarding the issues of working at Training Centers

[edited] I thank you for analyzing my post and I am glad to have learnt from it; however, inadequate comprehension misleads readers to follow-ups, test answers and perhaps forums participation with all due respect. The gist is not what you may think it is.
Cheers and beers to all eager beaver posters that see EF everywhere :)

#2 Parent The Grammarian - 2012-10-31
Re: Regarding the issues of working at Training Centers

The fact is that a handful of the board's posters projects a false image on the country's education...

It is trivial to say that even native speakers make grammar mistakes when writing fast and not editing their text. Here, we have an interesting instance of wrong subject-verb agreement; the head word in the subject phrase a handful of the board's posters is posters in plural form; hence, the subject-verb agreement rule in this case should follow the plural form of the head word in the subject phrase and thus be project instead of projects. Projects as a verbal form seems to refer to a handful of in singular form, but at syntactic level a handful of functions as an attribute to the board's posters and therefore cannot be marked for subject-verb agreement.

No claim is made as to the possibility that EF folks are unaware of it.

#3 Parent Alternate - 2012-10-31
Re: Regarding the issues of working at Training Centers

Most people are also intelligent enough to not go to a [edited] place like china to begin with unless they were suckered someway with propaganda appealing to their ideals or they have trouble finding decent work to begin with. Your own attitude reflects why expats can have such a horrible experience, that is dealing with uncaring, indecent, self serving fellow expats overseas such as [edited].

Your own writing reflects an attitude similar to that of posters like Londongirl and Kevin of Fuzhou, who have both worked at EF for a long time. You only will consider the faults in the arguments of those who disagree with you instead of taking into account on some points that you may not have too much knowledge about. Telling others that your reality is the only one that matters, constantly trying to raise the standards of the argument when there is a legitimate rebuttal, and never giving the thought to bring out a win-win situation in a discussion and always needing to "one-up" the other person is your MO. It seems to be the "EF" attitude.

On the other hand, if you were really a decent person and you worked for EF, you would keep your mouth shut because you know the criticisms are correct. You would constantly be looking for something better, and you would agree with the other expats who have had a bad experience at EF or places like EF and seek to resolve the problem by doing what posters like Silverboy have suggested, which is to give as much bad publicity as possible and make them lose a lot of face.

If you really were as devoted to your own set of morals and ethics as you pertain to be, you would apply the standards that you expect from others to yourself. That would mean boycotting the entire chinese educational body by never working for any private or public place in said country. Unfortunately that seem to be an impossible situation [edited]. This means you are stuck working in the educational field whether you like it or not. In that case, you shouldn't expect so much from others when you cannot do whatever it is that you have said constitutes decency yourself. You sound more chinese than western in that regard, unfortunately.

#4 Parent englishgibson - 2012-10-31
Re: Regarding the issues of working at Training Centers

[edited]

The fact is that a handful of the board's posters projects a false image on the country's education, its system and as it appears on other well experienced exapts in the country. It's highly regrettable that the internet can be abused to such an extent. However, most of readers are intelligent enough to see who you are. They won't even bother posting on and will take appropriate steps to make their choices.

EF truly is a mess but there's much more to it than black and white. Have a look at the high schools around and see how they operate. Then, move on to higher education where they guarantee graduation to most, or shall i say all. See who runs the whole 9 yards of it. When you are done with your research come back to the training centers and take a look who own them.

Cheers and beers

Alternate - 2012-10-30
Regarding the issues of working at Training Centers

Over the last 4 months there have been posts that have aimed at defending education businesses in china regarding their legitimacy and whether people are allowed to give criticism towards them. The flawed logic of the folks who come on here and defend whatever businesses they used to work for in the past or are currently working for in the present exposes a shallow depth of knowledge not only towards other people but also to the plight of others who may have suffered extensively including but not limited to serious issues such as emotional trauma, loss in finances, and spiritual resilience. Why anyone would believe in china being able to provide a good environment with flourishing education businesses is beyond comprehension and is offensive to honest expats who have worked in china and have used fair, intelligent judgement on whether or not they are being respected. People who still attempt to defend the existence of virtue at Training Centers must learn to think better and learn more empathy, although to be realistic I must say after reading some of the posts that this may be an impossible proposition. This essay attempts to dissect the views of those who believe in telling others it's not okay to be critical, especially of places where they have never worked and have never met the folks who have worked there.

The people who criticize the regular posters who bash Training Centers saying that they are complaining for no reason obviously have not been reading their posts on a consistent basis, if at all. Almost all of these posters have shared extensive personal experiences on various posts throughout the last several years and have been completely open about giving others assistance with regards to information on working in china. Rarely do these posters use their educational credentials to intimidate or bully other posters who object to them. They also do not attack others unless they suspect other posters who engage in questionable ethics, such as giving undue praise to a Training Centers while simultaneously bashing the character of another poster who gave criticism. What ultimately drives me to not believe these folks who do the praising is that almost all of the time the person doing the praising will say some very baseless things about others who disagree with them including insulting and degrading the character of the other poster without giving any fault towards themselves. Now we all live in an imperfect world, and we are all human beings liable to be at fault when engaging in social interactions with others, especially in a foreign setting like china where the locals aren’t always the most honest and our fellow expats are all coming from different countries. You must show that you are the bigger person if you truly believe that you are in the know, instead the attitudes displayed by the expats who sing the praises of Training Centers seem childish and not worthy of being listened to.

When traveling to and working in a foreign country, communication can always be warped and people may say things out of too much emotion, especially in a kind of atmosphere that is vastly different like china’s. But in the end if we are mature and decent about honestly trying to understand other folks we will reach out and come to empathize and know what troubles others. This can in turn give introspection within ourselves and make us better people as we can know how to resolve issues better. Most importantly, this is reflected in the language that we use when we are talking or typing something. While the initial negative reviews may be written out in a state of distress or annoyance on behalf of the teacher, none (I repeat, I have NEVER SEEN ONE INITIAL RESPONSE) of the responding posts written by management at these Training Centers which have gone against the opinions of the posters who criticize these schools or “schools” that are the subject of constant discussion on eslteachersboard.com, have been spoken in a tone that gives me confidence whether the people who are higher up structure wise at Training Centers give a damn about how expat teachers feel living in a foreign country and dealing with things like cultural shock, depression, language barrier, etc. Clearly over the years boards like these have shown that the only, single consistent behavior of these places (such as English First) is to not possess any thread of ethics whatsoever. One would think folks who want to succeed in business would actually think about taking care of teachers who come from far abroad, but in fact when reading posts on ESL discussion boards often the opposite is found to be true.

One can only draw the conclusion that the reason for this lack of acknowledgement from management from Training Centers, which includes bigger places calling themselves International Schools, Training Colleges, Private Universities that operate on the same structure is that they are not worried about getting new teachers, or they simply don’t care if they cannot provide good teachers to their customers due to the money that they make. Either way, this uncaring and unprofessional attitude is something that any developing country should seek to minimize, marginalize, and even make laws against in certain circumstances if they are to attract the best quality individuals of not just education, but any profession in the free market world. But frivolous behavior of private businesses selling what they call education has not gotten better in china, rather it has become worse as more and more complaints against the same companies have come up on these boards. If that’s not a sign to run away from these companies, I don’t know what is.

To the management at these Training Centers who talk about how they are the only ones in the know of what goes on at these companies because they have worked or are working there, I say you are liars. Evidence from other posts showing TC bosses will pay you to post positive reviews (would you need to do that if your business was really a good one?), immature behavior from foreign management such as spreading rumors/gossip, creating division amongst the other expats through unequal distribution of resources, and bullying/intimidation are what makes you earn your pay. You are not only a part of the problem, many times YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! By destroying the confidence and good will of others who work under you, you get less production out of these individuals which can only give you a better chance to look more productive, not to mention making your Chinese boss believe that you are the best foreigner for the job at the business that they run. By engaging in unethical practices with your Chinese boss, you assure confidence and trust with them, making you an unethical accomplice whose words we should not take seriously. Furthermore, making Training Centers full of ill will and horrible places to work at benefits you fully!

The very reasons why Training Centers are such negative places to work at are the very reasons that make your own lives so positive and in your own mind successful.

Why would you not want to keep it that way?

This kind of behavior in reality comes at a huge price. You would have trampled on the rights of countless other teachers. For example, you can do this by carrying out the underhanded agendas of your Chinese bosses such as lying to expat teachers about their visa processing status, changing the teachers’ teaching schedules without due notice which can also give you and/or your Chinese boss an excuse to change salary, and giving false, “bad” reviews about other teachers who righteously complained and stood up for themselves when you were the one making the problem in the first place. You are so used to this routine that what makes a normal individual become shameful and embarrassed is what makes you boastful and proud. 2012 has been a year where we have seen many of these types of characters come on here and parade this attitude around, hoping probably to draw newbies in with their aura of false confidence and fake courage. What is truly sad and pathetic, is that many of you have legitimately high degrees from Western Universities. You may also even have Western Education Certification. Yet you obviously did not care about ethics classes as the degrees you have earned are merely worthless pieces of paper that you use to scare others into agreeing with your view of reality.

In conclusion, one can see why Training Centers are such problems. The only types of individuals who can last years there are the ones with serious character flaws, or people who are simply crooks. The corrupt business practices of Chinese bosses is all too well known in china as in this country everyone born there and educated can lie and give the illusion that they know what they are doing, when they are only draining you of your time and your resources. In turn, these two groups will only need each other more and will only carry out and deepen the deceptions that they possess in order to keep their own sense of existence as being useful. What will transpire is an endless cycle of heavy recruiting and seemingly attractive marketing so they can continue the heavy churn that is their business, and it is businesses that are called Training Centers all over china which operate like this.

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