Magister
- 2012-11-13
Much of What you describe is not in my opinion criticisms that can be leveled purely at the Chinese and Chinese society. They are weaknesses within all current societies and human nature in general. Are the Chinese short sighted? Yes, without a doubt but then so are all people and by definition we are unable to see our own blind spots.
In regards specifics like the environment. Undoubtedly the Chinese need to improve the situation for their and all our sakes. What as teachers we can do is try and educate our students and Chinese friends into how they can begin to make changes for the better in their everyday lives. As westerners we have had the benefit of being educated in environmental protection, many Chinese have not. Yet still we in the west despite our advantages do very little to actually benefit the global environment. We elect politicians who either openly oppose green reforms and /or the very idea of climate change or who just pay lip service to the idea. The majority of westerners know this yet they do nothing. It'd also be interesting to see if you gave an individual from a western country the choice of
A.) being able to buy cheap electronics and clothing
Or
B.) China having strict environmental regulations causing the price of those products to raise 20-30%
I wonder which the majority would choose? That's the problem of the individualistic societies we come from - its not a problem so long as its not happening in your own back garden! Of course as far as the environment is concerned such an approach is doomed to fail as it requires a group mentality working at regional and global levels.
I'd agree about the issue of the family unit in china. It's good that children have contact with their grandparents but their parents should remain the primary care giver. When you consider how quickly china is changing, I find it hard to believe that some older generations are really in a position to raise their children's children to meet the pressures of the new world that they are being born into or at least not in a modern, progressive way. This situation also robs the parents of the proper experience to know how to raise their children. People aren't born as good parents they need to learn.
The Chinese idea of marriage, having children, preference for male children,etc. is a blight on their society. It'll be interesting to see in 40years time when this generation of graduates are becoming grandparents if such ideas persist. I'd suggest that current improvements to the economic situation in china will help bring about changes in this thinking just as they did in western society i.e. women gaining financial independence will ensure that concepts of marriage modernize.
Life is about more than money and physical things but the fact that most Chinese now have the basic necessities to live must make them happier than the 100's of millions in other parts of the world who don't have access to sufficient water, food, clothing and shelter. I'd guess that you've never lived in sub-Saharan Africa and seen the misery that lack of the above, along with war, disease and absolute poverty can cause.
juanisaac
- 2012-11-13
Maybe you can help me on something. I spoke to a man who recently had a baby. He told me with no joy n his words that he had a son. That floored me since most men prefer a son. I asked him why. He told me that boys are expensive since now he has to save up for his son's education, wedding, and house. He wanted a girl so he could save the money. He has businesses, if that adds anything to the conversation. Did I witness a new trend, or a flux in the Chinese matrix?
San Migs
- 2012-11-12
Drags,
A lot of what you say is true. I am interested in the topics you have raised and conducted some of my own research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
China accounts for 30 percent of suicides worldwide. Granted, there is a larger population, but for women to be killing themselves, there is obviously something rotten in the system.
I was watching Skyfall, the new 007 film, of course it showed Shanghai and Macau, prosperous, futuristic, with affluent people, going forward into the 22nd century, but I wonder how much of the real china the filmmakers saw or would have been allowed to film?
In a culture that values image, over substance, any women who don't match the expected beauty standards suffer from low self esteem, no doubt. Add in that families prefer a son, and is it any wonder, women are so messed up.
I agree
- 2012-11-11
Dragonized: You wrote a masterpiece!
And you put words on what I feel about many Chinese people that I personally know.
Dragonized
- 2012-11-11
I think before any real changes can come the regular people need to see themselves as citizens first and foremost who have rights. Once their rights are violated they must realize they have no obligation towards the government. Every soldier, policeman, doctor, politician is only making their own society worse in china by going along with the nihilistic values of what the government promotes. What china is essentially doing is fooling or attempting to fool the vast majority of its population towards living a very unproductive, parasitic, and selfish lifestyle and it is one that can only be sustained by bringing out the worst, most negative side that human nature has to offer.
Chinese still have a long long ways to go in terms of behaving in a decent, common sense manner including things such as:
1. Taking care of their own environment
2. Respecting other people's property and not just thinking they can keep whatever they find, and not trying to take a friend's or relative's things if they see that they don't possess it.
3. Having BOUNDARIES when asking about other people's personal lives
4. Getting over jealousy over petty things such as others having more ability than you. The jealousy leads to wicked behavior
5. Seeing the world as not just made up of things that the physical senses can detect, but understanding a higher sense of self. Expanding the conscious.
6. Taking care of their children and I mean actually taking care of them. Not just screaming, yelling, beating, and abusing them when you're the one feeling down and then telling them how great they can be in the next breadth.
7. Seeing their own hypocrisy. Any intelligent individual who has studied mental disorders and is fluent in Mandarin chinese can detect a strong sense of bipolarism when communicating amongst the general population. It seems like the local chinese will put you or another person on a high pedestal one minute but will say (and sometimes admit doing) something remarkably cruel the next.
8. Understanding that having compassion, empathy, and courage are the pillars of having true virtue. One can only have a successful social life have have real friends if one believes in true good. You have to be willing to volunteer in doing things which brings no benefit to you, but that is how you build true civilization.
Before I start sounding like a Priest I will stop talking about values and morals. But something basic that we may hear at whatever religion in which we practice is very strange and foreign to the chinese.
Shortsightedness and lack of real values will come back and bite them. Almost every type of virtuous behavior that is observed in china has a personal agenda behind it, and that is making yourself look good in front of others. This is why the country is already developed by world standards, but it has merely produced the world's most unhappy people (in my opinion).
San Migs
- 2012-11-11
As our economies developed so did our societies and ways of thinking and we hope that they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. China has made rapid economic progress but has not been able until now to make certain changes in it's society to improve some of the areas you mentioned.
Well said, I talked with some chinese people, even some of those from Hong Kong, and none of them could understand the london olympics opening ceremony.
I tried to explain it showed that along with industrial revolution, also came with it revolution of the workers, women, and eventually people from other countries, into the post colonial multicultural britain of today. It speaks volumes they still have signs up on the HK mtr reminding people not to be racist and discriminate against someone because they wear a turban or skullcap. Granted there is racism in western countries too, but as you say, along with economic progress, came development and englightenment in other areas, something which China with it's hive mind mentality has yet to experience alas.
Magister
- 2012-11-11
I'm glad that you admit that it is not just Confucian or Chinese society that has issues with inequality. There are obvious examples like the Hindu caste system that still dominates Indian society that takes such inequality to an even greater degree. What you describe about US society is what I would regard as 'the American Dream'. The belief that no matter who you are you can achieve anything. It's a nice idea but in practice it isn't really true is it? I'm reminded of a scene from the Simpsons when a young Homer is at home with his parents watching President Kennedy on TV.
Homer: Look at me, er, uh, Mom: I am, er, uh, President Kennedy.
Mrs. Simpson: Oh, Abe: maybe our Homer could grow up to be President some day.
Abe: You, President? This is the greatest country in the world. We've got a whole system set up to prevent people like you from ever becoming president. Quit your daydreaming, melonhead!
Only a cartoon I know but it makes a reasonable point.
Any ideology or religion that is over 2000 years old is likely to be in need of adaptation. What may have seemed like sound advice for organizing a society back then may not hold true today. I'm sure the Republican Party with it's strong links to the Christian right in the US would agree with this sentiment given the recent comments about rape, incest and abortion which didn't seem to fit with most Americans current view of society and have cost them seats in the senate and possibly the presidency itself. Of course, what seems to be replacing traditional ideologies such as confucianism in china is the modern western concept of capitalism. A system based on the ideas of the division of labour, market forces, etc. that accept society, the economy and individual as being essentially unequal.
It's easy to take the moral high ground as a Westerner and talk about universalism, democracy, law and human rights. We do come from freer, wealthier and at the moment more enlightened societies. However, it wasn't that long ago that our societies were dominated by concepts like slavery and imperialism. As our economies developed so did our societies and ways of thinking and we hope that they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. China has made rapid economic progress but has not been able until now to make certain changes in it's society to improve some of the areas you mentioned. I think it's only natural that such changes take longer to instigate than say for example an economic reform as they require a change in the way people think and act. I do however, believe that the Chinese are capable of making such changes in the future. To think otherwise is in essence to believe in inequality ie. that somehow the Chinese are less able to grasp concepts such as basic human rights.
San Migs
- 2012-11-10
Thanks for your reply.
Channel 4 in the UK should make for some interesting viewing this coming Monday night.
If I acquire a decent rip of the doco, I will try put a link up here for everyone to download and view.
http://digiguide.tv/programme-details/Channel+4/12+November+2012/20:00/Dispatches/Documentary/
Dragonized
- 2012-11-10
I forgot to mention one more important thing,
Confucianism never, ever gave a concrete, finite term of what constitutes the meaning of what an INDIVIDUAL is and where the boundaries on the treatment of individuals lay, therefore you cannot possibly have any way of leading to a firm resolution towards giving and providing human rights. This fatal flaw in its thinking means anyone who for example tries to use it as a fad/fashionable accessory to fool innocent folks into believing that they are intellectuals or intelligent people will only come back and bite them hard in the ass, and deservedly so.
San Migs
- 2012-11-10
Until the general population understands and personalizes the values in developed countries such as universalism, democracy, mutual benefiting, and abiding by the law they people there will always hold themselves down. We cannot help them nor can we help the expats who benefit from this by doing nothing and trying to marginalize us. Just fight for what we believe in and lead by example, for there will always be people who have not opened up.
Agreed. If the Chinese are unwilling to change, and after Hu's recent we will continue the path of socialism speech, it is doubtful that change ever will come, I say leave them to it, but as for the GW's who become a part of it, screw over other foreigners, and try and benefit and profit from the corrupt, rotten system then I say SHAME on them!
Dragonized
- 2012-11-10
Here's the bottom line in my mind:
Confucianism is a failed system of thought whether from a religious or philosophical point of view because it's foundation on how to treat people is not made of ideas that people are all the same and equal in ways, but it defines people as needing to be placed in categories that interpreted as higher or lower based on what they do. Once you are put into that category you cannot be labeled in any other way, you are stuck in society for what you are.
So the basic idea behind it is one that completely defines itself by STATUS.
This is why china even after all these thousands of years still hasn't changed in her thinking. The very day an infant starts to be aware of his/her surroundings they are made to believe that people who want to improve their own lives must work from the very bottom. So if you wonder why folks who "made it" suddenly want to oppress and view poorer people with contempt vs the ones who view themselves as poor who complain about corruption and china being a country that has been through so much hardship and want sympathy; well they are two sides of the same coin!
Now every country I have been to there will be status, greed, power grabbing, and corruption to some degree. But in china there is literally NOTHING ELSE to define the dynamics of what comprises life, so the people there indulge in the vicious cycle even while knowing it does them no good. Whereas in my country (USA) you see people well into their mid-years changing careers out of choice, folks with families and jobs who still find time to improve themselves and chase their dreams in fields that develop the mind (art, literature, philosophy, productive hobbies), and a general atmosphere of more acceptance. What cannot be overlooked is a strong spiritual/religious foundation in many countries is what contributes to this open view.
What hurts the chinese even more is their "face" culture which inhibits them from trusting expats and accepting information that was given to them by non-chinese sources. There is always an "us vs. them", "chinese ways vs. non-chinese ways", and the constant comparing is the status mindset at work. You can see churches, mosques, and temples in that country. You can buy if you have the money all the latest consumer goods. You can even see some unique construction from hundreds of years back. Everything can come together to give you a sense of civilization, culture, and a sense that you can be comfortable living there. But there is just something that is missing, and that is the love of life and the belief in yourself that you can create something from nothing.
Until the general population understands and personalizes the values in developed countries such as universalism, democracy, mutual benefiting, and abiding by the law they people there will always hold themselves down. We cannot help them nor can we help the expats who benefit from this by doing nothing and trying to marginalize us. Just fight for what we believe in and lead by example, for there will always be people who have not opened up.
Magister
- 2012-11-09
Understanding the history and cultural background of a country as well as it's various political institutions is important to understanding how it might react to various situations as they occur. As with any political institution the Chinese Communist Party is strongly influenced by its past but it should also be recognized that it has over the last few decades made many changes to it's founding principles in order to adapt to the challenges it faces at home and abroad. Such behavior is symptomatic of an advanced political institution and it is these kind of institutions that have historically lasted longer and ensured relative stability within a country. The problem that you described with cronyism is that it generally requires the maintainance of a status quo in order for it to survive. Steady progress and change away from cronyism is certainly what is required for long term stability of this particular institution. Let's see what happens, as I don't think it would come as much of a surprise to Westerners to hear a politician talking the talk but not necessarily walking the walk. Saying that tackling corruption is a priority doesn't mean that things will change particularly when this speech comes at the end of his political term in office. Such comments could also be seen as being aimed at Bo and his supporters(many of who are still awaiting trial on corruption charges) who are political enemies of the current leadership and by doing this Hu is looking to ensure his political legacy. This kind of infighting also presents a threat to the stability of the party and the country as a whole, particularly given the one party system that you referred to in your post.