foxy
- 2012-11-24
Good post, Ken. Let me go into more detail re senior high school oral teaching in China.
I agree with you that a basic pay of 5,000 RMB/month is about right if an FT is teaching 16 classes a week. With that kind of timetable an FT will have 2 relatively busy days, 2 light days and one free day in the five-day working week. In terms of pay/class it equates to 78 RB/class, which is reasonable for a 40/45 minute lesson. But only if the FT has to prepare for 1 class/week, to be taught to each of his 16 classes.
However, if the schedule were 18 classes/week, an FT should expect a pro-rata pay increase, making his pay 9/8 x 5,000 = 5,750 RMB/month. But only if the FT has to prepare for 1 class/week, to be taught to each of his 18 classes.
However, for a schedule of 20 classes a week, an FT should expect a bit more than a pro-rata pay increase. That's because the job becomes more arduous than just a linear increase. So, at pro-rata rates, the FT will be paid 5/4 x 5,000 = 6,250 RMB/month. To take account of the arduosity factor, let's add 250 RMB. An FT on 20 classes/week should get 6,500 RMB/month by my reckoning. But only if the FT has to prepare for 1 class/week, to be taught to each of his 20 classes.
However, if the schedule were 22 classes/ week, pro-rata would be 22/16 x 5,000 = 7,250 RMB/month. Let's add 350 RMB as the arduosity factor. An FT on 22 classes/week should get 7,600RMB/month by my reckoning.But only if the FT has to prepare for 1 class/week, to be taught to each of his 22 classes.
However, if the schedule were 25 classes/ week, pro-rata would be 25/16 x 5,000 = 7,875 RMB/month. Let's add 625 RMB as the arduosity factor. An FT on 25 classes/week should get 8,500RMB/month by my reckoning. But only if the FT has to prepare for 1 class/week, to be taught to each of his 25 classes.
Finally, let's say those should be net salaries, meaning the employer has already paid the income tax and other deductions. And the employer should also provide a teaching assistant to help the FT prepare for class and be present in his every class to act as an interpreter and assist with discipline problems.
Dragonized
- 2012-11-23
Yep, typical behavior from the chinese. Everyone who grows up in that country seems to carry a grudge to empty out on someone whom they feel deserves it. You will not realize that a casual remark, harmless comment, or a simple smile towards someone can be interpreted as some flaw in your personality that needs to be exposed and punished. Of which case it serves you right in their minds. The disgusting ignorance carried by the populace which believes that cruelty is a virtue needs to be exposed for all to see.
Sometimes just because a country or culture has been around for a long time doesn't mean they've remembered what brought them there in the first place. You can certainly say most of the good stuff was definitely forgotten along the way!
foxy
- 2012-11-23
For young ones learning Chinese, studying business and trade in China is a must. China is really only any good for older retired fellows like yourself, or the independently wealthy.
You've summed it up rather well. Anyways, good luck with your job search.
Bye for now,
foxy.
Ken
- 2012-11-23
Beijing agents are usually much too greedy!
25 classes a week teaching high schoolers sounds far too many, irrespective of the salary offered for doing so! Aim for round about 16 a week, but for 16 a week I'd say 5,000 RMB a month would be reasonable if you're white and the company offers you an unshared rent-free apartment plus the services of a company-supplied teaching assistant. Just my two cents worth!
asd
- 2012-11-23
Today i interviewed with this recruitment company from Beijing. The offer sounds bad for several reasons:
20 teaching hours a week= 25 classes a week.
Shared housing.
I was baited and then had my original location switched cos allegedly not having a TEFL Cert is not good enough for some provinces.
The company pays the salary and not the school. Seeing how they are based in Beijing and the schools they hire for are far away, the potential for salary misappropriation seems very high to me. I'm giving them a wide berth. It sounds very dodgy. Eventually i will name them.
San Migs
- 2012-11-23
Yeah tis a sad state of affairs.
I blame a humanistic based society with the absence of religion, the CCP won't allow it because they saw how religion changed things in Romania and other communist countries.
We can only be careful dealing with wai bans.
San Migs
- 2012-11-23
In fact, I have become so lazy here, I'd be unemployable back home.
The only problem with that is, it can affect you adversely should you need to work on your return home. If you are fully retired, it is no problem whatsoever, but for a younger bloke, who might have to immerse himself into the cutthroat life of say working in London, he will be buggered.
A investment bank manager in the city, will just think 6 years spent in Baotou teaching english is a waste of time.
For young ones learning Chinese, studying business and trade in China is a must. China is really only any good for older retired fellows like yourself, or the independently wealthy.
Good day,
SMGS
foxy
- 2012-11-23
I was only there for 4 weeks - it was a case of Hobson's choice for them. They were paying 2 of my colleagues only 50 RMB/class! They were Chinese with Western passports, and native speakers of English to boot! That's the situ there.
Many of the children's mothers were hot, and dressed scantily in fine clothes! I wouldn't refuse any of 'em if I got the chance, but of course I wouldn't!
There are all kinds of foreigners teaching in China. I'm one of the lazy ones. In fact, I have become so lazy here, I'd be unemployable back home. That's the way I like it. But now I don't even wanna job. I am happily retired and I'll never have to work again. I have enough money to do as I like. I'm not interested in free dinners. I had that in Baotou for a whole year. It gets boring afer a while. Here in Hohhot I go out once a month for a good meal with my wife.
juanisaac
- 2012-11-23
Have any of the parents taken you out to special pre-school year dinners? They have to me and alot of my colleagues. On top of the very, very expensive dinner have you ever been given a red envelope by a parent that has a 500 yuan card inside of it? I have. That was to "apologize in advance for their children's behavior." It was certainly not a bribe. Granted that some of my colleagues do work alot more hours than me, but the theme of my story is that Chinese teachers earn alot more than the salary you stated. I asked one such teacher what she did this summer and she told me "Taught English at home." In Jiangsu province private teaching is ilegal by public school teachers.
Lets do the math:
parent hong baos (red envelopes)which may vary from year to year
summer teaching at home
end of year bonuses
pay for test results
teacher day bonuses (some as much as a few months salary to avoid paying income taxes)
pension (I got none)
insurance (a whole lot better than mine)
pay over 12 months ( I get 11 months)
It all adds up to a good package with a nice mix of grey money. My first year in CHina my total compensation was 70,000. My ex was well over 100 k. I work in a small town of 500,000 people now. One of my colleagues just bought a new 800,000 yuan house with a 500,000 down payment he made from selling his old house. He is an English teacher in his early 30s with 10 years experience. I hang out with my colleagues here, and after they trust you a bit it's incredible how much they share with you.
foxy
- 2012-11-23
Once they cease to find you useful any longer, then you will not even get a polite goodbye!!
You and Drag are dead right.
At one place where I was employed, the management treated a foreign colleague of mine they disliked very badly once his services were no longer required. The old man was surprised by this cruelty and especially angered by the disdainful way the waiban treated him. As it was the week before the end of the semester, he guessed right that a replacement had been lined up in the wings. He knew he had nothing to lose, so he confronted his tormentor, and ended up having a swing at him. Unfortunately he failed to connect - the cowardly waiban ducked and ran away!
San Migs
- 2012-11-22
Drags calls it right again.
The chinese are only "nice" as long as they can use you in some way.
Once they cease to find you useful any longer, then you will not even get a polite goodbye!!
foxy
- 2012-11-22
Chinese teachers work much longer hours than FTs @ middle schools. As well as teaching, they have to supervise students during private study. They also have to assess students, do those ridiculous morning exercises, prepare teaching reports and attend boring meetings. Their salaries are performance-based, which means those who are deemed model teachers are the only ones making good money. Arranging sports days, marking written homework are additional duties they have that FTs don't have. Their hols are shorter than ours, and they must take annual medicals. Teaching private classes in their spare time is the way they can afford cars. I don't envy them their lot. There's a big difference salary-wise between those teachers in lowly senior middle schools and those at key middle schools.
At the best private K12 in Shanxi, they have to direct traffic on campus most weekends when rich parents drive in to uplift their offspring at the K1-K6 campus!
I reckon if you're in teaching for the money, you'd be better to try the Middle East! But money ain't the be-all, it depends how hard you have to work and how much stress you have to endure to earn it!
And, for your info, at the last backwater I was in, young barbers were on 800RMB/month, and my t/a was on 1,500RMB/month. I heard from a few of the teachers what they were on. But that's North China, regarded as backward and underdeveloped by Southerners. It's much pooter than the south of China. As the house prices are lower, the salaries must be too.
San Migs
- 2012-11-22
Who ever told you teachers earn 3,ooo yuan a month is just pulling your leg. I was told this same story by teachers only to see them drive on campus the next day in new cars. Granted novice teachers might earn this, but older ones like myself do not. Chinese teachers get a pension, testing bonuses, teachers day money, and some even get a housing stipend. Many also teach students at home for 100 yuan each per class.
Well said. But that home teaching figure try around 200-250. Personally, I would only tutor for 200 rmb per hour as that is how much I am confident of being worth. If they don't want to pay, then bye!
San Migs
- 2012-11-22
Unlike you, I have taught middle school for a Chinese agent who supplied me with a teaching assistant, for 5,000 RMB/ month plus most of the perks you mention, and I was never skint at the end of a month. I was posted in the sticks, the cost of living was low, the locals were friendly, and life was at a slow pace.
Well, like you, but not feeling a need to boast of it, I got 5,500 for a similar gig. But no TA in my class, and I preferred it that way, then I could as I please, no stupid textbook, no stupid games, I was free to do as I please. A lot of times they had exams, went home, so some months I only taught two weeks, hardly work at all.
The OP prefers training centres, not much we can do about that. Personally they are not my cup of pu er tea.
Dragonized
- 2012-11-22
Question: Is this offer (and most offers around China, ripping us all off to the absolute maximum or what? Love to read your comments.
Simple Answer: Of course.
We are treated as commodities, and if the chinese feel like being "nice" to us they will pretend to hold us up on some fake high pedestal. In these cases you'll feel slightly less like an ordinary commodity and more like a tool that was given some more shining. Either way if you want to feel like you're being treated fairly you should not go and work in that country.
I swear, even when my boss has a problem with me in the west and if there is a disagreement I still feel that I have so much more freedom, I can after all just quit. In places like china you have those retarded policies such as release letters and blacklists which basically limit your every move.
juanisaac
- 2012-11-22
For a middle school in Jiangsu your salary is about right. I teach just south of you at another middle school for 5,800 yuan a month. I teach 11 classes. If you do the math you earn more per class than I do. You were hired to teach a class, not get a salary per student. If you have a t.a. lucky you, because I don't have one.
If this is your first time teaching middle school in China, let me tell you that you are not so much a teacher but a speaking coach. The first month or so your students will be very much excited and participate in class. As you keep going more and more will lose interest and draw, read books, play card games, and such in class if you let them.
My only rule in class is this: English or homework. They can choose one the aformentioned but nothing else is allowed. Grade two students are worse than grade one students because some will act like jerks. Good luck, you will need it.
You can supplement your income with tutoring and working at other schools, I do and double my income every month.
juanisaac
- 2012-11-22
Who ever told you teachers earn 3,ooo yuan a month is just pulling your leg. I was told this same story by teachers only to see them drive on campus the next day in new cars. Granted novice teachers might earn this, but older ones like myself do not. Chinese teachers get a pension, testing bonuses, teachers day money, and some even get a housing stipend. Many also teach students at home for 100 yuan each per class.
My ex-gf, a former middle school teacher, made 30,000 yuan every summer teaching at home. When you do the math, adding in benefits, teachers with my level of experience- 7 years- earn as much or more than I do (5,800 per month) on average. From 8 out of 10 teachers I speak to at my current school, they all admit to me that we earn exactly the same. Ten years ago a foreigner earned twice as much as a Chinese teacher, but not anymore.
Once I spoke to the head teacher trainer of a small town. When I told him that I earned 5,000 a month, this was three years ago, he told me that my salary was in the middle.
foxy
- 2012-11-22
Per week I'd guess you'll only actually need to plan 4-5 classes and then just repeat them to different sets of students.
But I'd guess it'll just involve the regurgitation of 1 lesson/week to a particular grade, senior 1 or senior 2, not senior 3 as they will be in their final year of middle school before undertaking their college entrance exams at the end of the academic year. Even more boring than you say, but less prep, and no end-of-term oral exams for students.
Likely, it's one of those key middle schools as the salary is above average for that kind of work. I guess more will be expected of the job encumbent than would be at a run-of-the-mill establishment of that kind.
There'll probably be suggestion boxes on each floor for students who wish to point out to the headmaster how he (or she) can advise teachers how to improve their teaching. Not for me, such a set-up. I've already experienced that, and prefer more freedom and more job security re my teaching. Less money, yes, but virtually no stress at an average public county senior high.
foxy
- 2012-11-22
My friend told me that 40RMB per kid per class is on the low side. 50 is average.
So: 40 kids per class multiplied by 40RMB is 1600RMB per class.
and multiply that by 20 classes a week is: 32,000RMB
and multiply that by 4 weeks in a month is: 128,000RMB a month.
Those are training center stats. They don't apply in the public sector!
If you're after big bucks, you'll need to become a private training center lackey, with all the associated negatives, such as teaching in a goldfish-bowl environment, your continued employment being subject to rich overly critical parents and their little emperors who aren't qualified to assess teachers, your having to working evenings and weekends, the necessity for producing several lesson plans per week, and maybe advertising/ handing out fliers outside a foreign fast food chain restaurant at lunchtime at the weekend. Besides, if you can't attract mor students, you'll be history fast!
Public school parents pay much less for your services than parents of training center students through the school's management, so the school isn't in a position to pay you a heap of money!
Big money in China means working very hard, I reckon much too hard, as far as teaching is concerned. Become a tc lackey if your goal in life is very high pay, that's the only way to achieve that in the teaching profession.
Magister
- 2012-11-22
It's likely that a class will be between 40-50mins, therefore you'll be teaching between 14-17 real/clock hours a week. Per week I'd guess you'll only actually need to plan 4-5 classes and then just repeat them to different sets of students. It's an easy, if not slightly boring job and 8000rmb a month is above average for doing it. You can earn more in other parts of the world teaching in different types of institutions but I'm sure with your experience you already knew that.
foxy
- 2012-11-22
Salary is 8000RMB pm and 1500RMB pm during summer and winter vacation periods. 5000 flight reimbursement. Free furnished apartment (unshared I assume). 200 pm utility allowance.
Get off your high horse, Hammer! Spare a thought for your Chinese colleagues - they're on at most 3,000 RMB/month plus having to live in a room + sharing cooking facilities. Your offer is well above the average for 20 classes/week without office hours. The only problem is you might have to teach well to justify your relatively high local salary. If you can't do that, your services might well be dispensed with sooner than you expect. In China, students hold the power regarding that. If they dislike you, you'll be on yer bike after a month or two! If you have no teaching assistant, you'll be faced with discipline problems in some of your classes, another thing to be wary of.
Personally, I wouldn't teach middle school without a Chinese teaching assistant. She will keep you from becoming unpopular by advising you how to come across in class, and will deal well with the discipline, saving you unnecessary hassle.
Unlike you, I have taught middle school for a Chinese agent who supplied me with a teaching assistant, for 5,000 RMB/ month plus most of the perks you mention, and I was never skint at the end of a month. I was posted in the sticks, the cost of living was low, the locals were friendly, and life was at a slow pace.
I got an offer for a middle school in Xuzhou but if I do some calculations it would seem the amount of potential cash that I will generate as Bachelor degreed native english speaker with 6 years of ESL experience pales in comparison.
The offer: Middle School. 20 classes per week or 20 hours per week (it’s not clear). Salary is 8000RMB pm and 1500RMB pm during summer and winter vacation periods. 5000 flight reimbursement. Free furnished apartment (unshared I assume). 200 pm utility allowance.
My friend told me that 40RMB per kid per class is on the low side. 50 is average.
So: 40 kids per class multiplied by 40RMB is 1600RMB per class.
and multiply that by 20 classes a week is: 32,000RMB
and multiply that by 4 weeks in a month is: 128,000RMB a month.
Question: Is this offer (and most offers around China, ripping us all off to the absolute maximum or what? Love to read your comments.