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Return to Index › Who goes to China without a signed contract? - ESL discussion
#1 Parent Rheno747 - 2005-08-10
Your ban may not be permanent - ESL discussion

If you do fly off and forget this so-called 'release process', you may not be PERMANENTLY barred from working in SK. But then again, you might be.

I've 'heard' that when you walk away from contracts in SK and don't get a formal release, you're barred from working there for only the remainder of your contract.

I walked away from a contract in SK without formally being released. Assuming my sources are correct, I'll be allowed to work again in SK beginning next July. Sometime after that I'll probably go back there and work at a high school or university.

Then again, my sources may be wrong.

#2 Parent LaosWhitey - 2005-08-02
It's not that easy in some cases - ESL discussion

If you've signed a contract to teach at a school that provides you with a plane ticket beforehand, you're setting yourself up for potential problems.

If you arrive at the school (using the plane ticket the school has provided) only to find you've been duped, you'll have to reimburse your new employer for that ticket if you want to be released from the contract.

This is especially true in South Korea. When you sign a contract for a South Korean school, the school submits your contract to South Korean immigration so the school can get the visa form for you. The school then sends the form to you and you then submit the form to your nearest SK embassy to get the work visa.

Immigration stipulates on this form that the work visa you get is good only if you work for the employer that submitted the contract. The name of that employer is even written on the visa when you get it.

If you terminate your employment before your contract is up, the relationship must be formally ended and noted in SK immigration before you will be allowed to work anywhere else in South Korea. In order for this to occur, you must be "released" from your obligation by your employer.

This means you will have to reimburse the school for the airfare and probably the visa costs, no matter if it's stipulated in the contract or not. They're gonna want that money back, you bet. On top of reimbursing the school for these costs, the formal release may take weeks to process. This means you will have to find costly accommodation while you wait.

After signing a contract with a school in a place like South Korea beforehand, you may arrive on the scene and not like what you see. Yep, you can then simply ignore the release process entirely and fly off into the sunset if you want. Remember though--you just won't be able to work again in that country.

Ask for the reimbursement instead of an employer-provided ticket. Don't take the risk.

#3 Parent LaosWhitey - 2005-08-02
There's also the matter of the airfare - ESL discussion

Some schools will offer to send you a plane ticket as an 'incentive' to lure you. I wouldn't go this route.

You will have to first sign a contract and commit to that school in order to get the ticket. Yes, this means committing to a school/employer/students/city you have never seen before in your life. Your school will want you to repay for this ticket if you later discover the school is not to your liking. And you WILL have to repay this cost if you want out of the contract. A contract you may have signed mere weeks or even days earlier.

So......don't accept an air ticket. Buy a ticket using your own funds, go visit the school, sign the contract THEN if you like it, and get a reimbursement for the ticket later. Remember to insist that the contract stipulate you will be getting that reimbursement later as well.

It's just too risky to sign a contract and accept a ticket before you even arrive at your new digs. After going to Korea and finding out the hard way the cold fact that we need to visit our potential employers BEFORE signing a contract, I'd say one should instead always ask for a reimbursement on the airfare later. This will allow you to avoid committing to a school you know nothing about in a town or city you know nothing about in a country you may know nothing about.

If you arrive at your new school and discover it's not what you were led to believe it is, you'll have the freedom to decline the school's offer on the spot. You'll be out only the cost of the airfare, which is good insurance, in my opinion. You also have the freedom (and the visa) to look for what you really want elsewhere for a little while.

#4 Parent Paul Barry - 2005-07-31
Contracts - ESL discussion

What real maning would a signed contract mean?
Are you going to sue them in Chinese court?
Certainly not in any American or foreign court.

If you don't feel comfortable going without a contract, don't go.

I doubt any first timer in China would use the courts to resolve a dispute, even though in my experience, most foreigners win.

Beware private high paying schools, trust government schools, they never break contracts.

Paul Barry
Melbourne, FL

#5 Parent Paul Barry - 2005-07-31
contracts are they worth it ? - ESL discussion

Sure you can sign the contract, you can always fly home if you don't like the apartment or whatever...

A contract only matters if you go to court, no one ever does... SO why bother with this discussion.
If you feel good about the school, go try it out, if not, look elsewhere.

Paul

#6 Parent Brian - 2005-07-31
Arguments For and Against - ESL discussion *Link*

There are two schools of thought on this subject, both of which have very valid arguments. At the end of the day it would seem that it is up to the individual to decide what is right for them.

Argument No.1:

If you sign a contract and obtain a Z visa before entering the country then at the very least you are guaranteed that you will be working legally when you arrive. This is true, but the problem is that you will also be committed to work for an employer that you have never met, in a school that you possibly know very little about, and in an area that you have possibly never been to. If you are lucky enough to actually sign up at a good school then everything will be fine. But if you were unlucky and have unknowingly signed up at a school that isn't so good, then you will need to accept that you are committed for at least a year to that school. This is not to say that you need to stay if they are treating you illegally, but you will certainly find little sympathy from the authorities over matters such as low pay, high hours, poor management, crappy housing etc.

Also, it would appear that a contract signed before you come to China has little if any legal validity according to Chinese courts. Most schools who ask you to sign a contract before you arrive, will ask you to re-sign the contract in China again to ensure it's validity. This is worth bearing in mind as I assume that most people who want to arrive on a signed contract do so as they feel that it gives them more security than arriving without a contract. From a strictly legal point of view however, this is likely to be a false sense of security.

A question that I would ask would be - What kind of institution would employ a teacher that they have never met? Teachers are a very important part of any school, and the concept of employing someone for such a position without first meeting them in person astounds me, and raises questions as to the legitimacy of the school.

Argument No.2:

By arriving in China without a committment to any one employer, you are giving yourself the freedom and opportunity to check out schools before you actually make a committment. Just seeing how far the school is from downtown, the layout of the school, the behavior of students, seeing whether the place is well maintained, meeting some current foreign teachers, checking out the proposed housing etc. can all be advantageous to identifying a good school. Bear in mind that you will be signing up for at least a year in many cases so you want to do your best to make sure that you are likely to be happy there. I can't understand why anyone would want to make a committment to any employer that they have never visited! This just seems to be to be asking for trouble.

From a legal point of view there is no problem with arriving in China on a tourist visa if you are in fact a tourist. You cannot legally work on a tourist visa of course, but once you have found a school that you like, and one that is able to offer you a Z visa, they can begin the process. You may need to leave the country to actually receive the Z visa (depending upon which province you are in) but this is likely a small price to pay for job security. Most schools will cover return airfare anyway.

The biggest danger in doing things this way is that a school may promise you a Z visa even though they can't deliver on this promise. This is why you really need to speak to past and present teachers at the school as this will enable you to determine whether or not obtaining a Z visa through the school was an issue or not. If the teachers currently at the school are all still waiting for Z visas to come through then that would be a warning bell.

As I stated above, the choice will be a personal one, but from where I sit I can't see many reasons for going with argument 1, but I can see a lot of advantages of argument 2.

#7 Parent jinchafa - 2005-07-29
signed contract - ESL discussion

Please don't sign a contract for a job in China until you see your apartment, the school you'll be teaching at, and the city you'll be living in. If it's not to your liking, there are many other jobs for you to examine before your tourist visa expires.

#8 Parent Eric - 2005-07-29
You mean they are crazy ...Thanks , MC - ESL discussion

#9 Parent MC - 2005-07-29
crazy-crazy - ESL discussion

Signed contract. Signed contract....

Eric - 2005-07-29
Who goes to China without a signed contract? - ESL discussion

I was asked to go without a contract and "promised' to sign one at my arrival ?
They must be crazy !!! 21 ST Century !!! Who starts work without a contract ? I wonder of any foreigners do it ? Tourists ,maybe ? O.K. If I were a tourist and if they sent me the airplane ticket, I would do it !

Can anybody tell me who the crazy one is --they or I ?

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