Rheno757
- 2005-09-24
Hey, Ying. Yeap, I know what you speak of. There are a few luxury cars in my school's lot down here in Thai-ville. They don't belong to any of the students, and they damn sure don't belong to any of the teachers, farang or Thai.
I'll tell you why it's like this at my digs: the school's nothing more than a front. Maybe it's a tax shelter. Maybe it's more--much more.
My school's kings and queens know they can replace a farang or Thai teacher in a heartbeat. They've had lots of practice, after all. 39 total teachers have come and gone in three years. 41 farang have come and gone in four years.
One planeload of teachers leaves as another planeload of teachers is coming in. It's the ol' revolving door problem, and school owners both here and in China milk it for all it's worth. They don't have to worry about paying decent salaries. Why would school owners pay decent salaries when they know at least some of those on the incoming planes will work for scraps?
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2005-09-24
I understand your point about low pay, Jinchafa.I myself, as many people who have read my previous posts on this forum know, am a strong advocate for fair wages for foreign teachers, especially for myself!
Many a time, over the three years I've been in China, I've considered working in a college or university, but have nearly always been put off by the low salaries offered; often only 3000- 4000 RMB a month. I wouldn't work for that amount.
Why these places of learning often pay low salaries, I just don't know. What I do know is that my school campus often looks like a car showroom, with the fleet of spanking new luxury cars that the leaders are cruising around in. The implication is these places are not usually short of a bob or two!
My wage is higher than is commonly offered in a college. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be here. I also take into account the fact that I take sixteen, 45 minute lessons a week, which is considerably less than is commonly taken in primary, middle or high schools.
I think it's a great pity that most of the best environments to teach are given the cold shoulder, and quite rightly so I must add, by many good teachers because the salaries are too low.They are denying their students access to many excellent teachers. It seems to me that they (colleges etc.), definitely have the means to pay higher wages.
The only reason I can think why salaries offered are so low, is the fact that schools know they will always find SOMEBODY who will accept them. If that's the case who REALLY is to blame for these conditions?
jinchafa
- 2005-09-24
Thanks Yingwen. I'm glad to know you've landed in a position that works for you. Unfortunately, I'm not interested in working at a teacher's college or any university that pays on the low end of the pay scale. I am happy for you though, and I commend your willingness to do a great job for low pay. To be honest I've worked in China for pay ranging from 16,000 all the way down to 6,000, but I would never accept the pay that most universities provide -especially when I know how much profit their taking. Yeah, I'm a little bit greedy in that regard. On the other hand, there will come a time when the money doesn't matter and I will try to make a difference without considering the renumeration.
BD
- 2005-09-23
Thats great to hear Yingwen! Im always happy to hear when someone likes their job and has good things to say. It just proves that there are good schools out there.
Dont worry, its never too soon to get excited about a job. Keep that good attitude.
BD
RhenoA340
- 2005-09-23
Jin, sounds like Ying has something good going on.
As for me, I'm around too many whiteys here. They're pushing me to get out, and I'm pushing them to do the same. We've all, unfortunately, adopted the attitude that we're here simply as billboards and nothing else. Lots of things we see daily are pushing us to think that.
If we really ARE just marketing tools, (and I hope we aren't), then all is lost. This ESL thing would be just another sick symptom of globalization.
It's funny how those who own these TEFL schools don't seem to ever stand in a classroom. They hire minions to do the real teaching. That says something, for sure.
Maybe it's time to chuck this sillines, go back to the US, and head to chef's school.
Yingwen Laoshi
- 2005-09-23
Hi BD and JCF. I hope I'ts not to soon in the term to get too excited, but I very much like what I've seen and heard so far in the teachers college I've just started working in.
First all, of the 320 students I'm teaching are studying English as their major . This often makes a significant difference, as opposed to students using English as a side subject to just fill time.
Another thing I like is that many of the students have a good idea of what they would like to do as a career after they graduate, many in fact wanting to be English teachers.
The vast majority of the students are girls, and I've found that when it comes to English it's the girls who are generally more enthusiastic about the subject.
These are the type of students I've been aching for, students with real goals and objectives.
Before, when teaching primary/ middle, many students didn't even know why they were there, didn't want to be there, and often the only goal they had was to play computer games during the holiday. This is understandable when you consider their age and the average schedule of such a student.
I've been spending the first week at the teachers college trying to get the students to specifically state, with their future goals in mind, what skills they would particularly like to improve, and what class activities would help them achieve this.The feedback has been for the most part encouraging.
Another plus I've found here, is that the student's English level is the highest I've encountered in a school in China. This means communication is good, and they for the most part understand clearly what my plans for them are. Previously, in other schools it's been so frustrating to stand in front of classes trying to put ideas across to children who just can't understand what the hell I'm talking about.
As most of them want to be teachers this gives me a lot of room to reason with them about what kind of students they should be.
I like the fact that the English department leaders sat us down (all five foreign teachers), for a meeting that lasted over two hours.They made it clear what was required of the students. THEY said they expect us to make sure that all students attend, are not late and are serious about their study. They told us about assignments, homework, assessments, exams and what's expected of us as teachers.
I came away from that meeting feeling that the management are serious about the student's education, and will support the foreign teachers all the way. We know where to go and who to see for virtually any problem we encounter.
Of course neither this school or it's students are perfect, and I also know I'm still deep in the honeymoon period. It could still go all apeshit.
I can only report what I've seen so far, and if all teachers colleges are like this, then I think they are the way to go for serious teachers.
JCF, you asked:
>.............Ok, where is the best place to teach where one can expect appropriate renumeration, appreciative students, decent housing and other benefits, along with an environment that is not so much of a culture shock that it prevents one from doing an effective job? I'm serious about this. I'm ready to go anywhere.............
I think a good answer to that question is Gannan Teachers College in Ganzhou, Jiangxi, China.
Hey Rheno, Sorry you're still laboring under the hot sun of Thailand and the depressive weight of trying to make a difference in the lives of students who generally could care less.
I've been back in the States now for about a week after being gone for nearly two years. Mostly I've been reflecting on what the hell I've been doing and why the hell I came back here - other than to see family and friends that I've sorely missed.
Well anyway, I've been appreciating your posts and have failed to respond to them or the replies because of this reflective, if not lethargic, space I'm in right now. However, the current discussion seems worthy of note - that of shelling out the many dollars for a real TESOL certificate or going the route of gaining a fake one. Actually, I can't add much to the discussion other than to say I'm glad I have a real certificate - it increases my options. I guess I can add that it also gives me something to refer to when my imagination has failed me or when ennui has become a factor.
Well anyway here's some random thoughts and maybe a few questions:
What I've noticed most about teaching in Asia and, more specifically, teaching in China, is that generally one must make a choice between making a little more money or making a difference. When I've worked in remote or impoverished areas I've noticed that the students are more responsive and motivated than those who've had the benefit of a more affluent (read spoiled) upbringing. I imagine it to be the same in Thailand. That is, if you were to teach in a village far removed from Bangkok or any other large city, you would probably find the students more motivated, the locals more respectful, and the job itself ultimately more rewarding to the soul; albeit, not rewarding financially.
In China however, the uncertainties of taking on a new job have become such that I reached a burnout point that benefits neither me nor my students. And unfortunately those uncertainties are there regardless if you've been hired directly by the school or a recruiter. Thus, although I will be returning to Asia, or- who knows - maybe elsewhere, to teach, I will not be returning to China to teach until I can afford to do it in a volunteer capacity and open a school in a remote village.
I wholeheartedly disagree with those who suggest that being dissatisfied with a teaching position and voicing one's concerns translates as culturally insensitive or unable to deal with the differences of teaching abroad. Regardless of where we are we should expect honesty and appreciation for our qualifications and experience.
Where in the minds of those of you who are frequent readers and responders to these posts is the best place to teach? Broad question.............Ok, where is the best place to teach where one can expect appropriate renumeration, appreciative students, decent housing and other benefits, along with an environment that is not so much of a culture shock that it prevents one from doing an effective job? I'm serious about this. I'm ready to go anywhere.............