Walking Dead
- 2014-09-24
Well I'm always happy to have a considered discussion about teaching. Don't worry about me I've got thick skin 
Beth
- 2014-09-24
It is a job and you have a duty to do your best for your students while you do it. Teaching is not a holiday or a hiatus, you are simply a tourist-teacher and any real teacher would view you with the same contempt I do.ESL in China is not a job, and I am resolutely not sorry for stating that fact. Your thinking is so small here, it is a hiatus or a holiday, nothing more. Working at EF is NOT a Career!!!!! Not one student remembers you after you are gone, not one, and certainly no other EF staff will.
As for students not remembering me, I best mention that to the students who regularly send me email updates about how they're getting on, and to the students I speak to on kakao chat.
And the EF staff who don't remember me... Again, still in contact with most of them actually. One flew from America to visit me while I lived in Italy, another I'm having drinks with when we're both back in the UK over the Christmas holidays and one is one of my best friends in the world who I spoke to only today!
Just because your students and colleagues are in a hurry to forget you, doesn't mean that's true for me!
Beth
- 2014-09-24
Also want to say how refreshing it is to read a post on here that shows such professionalism. From the outlining of course objectives and expectations, to consistent monitoring of attendance and proactive handling of potentially failing students. It's reassuring to see somebody else on these boards who has a sense of pride in what they do and takes their role as an educator seriously, not just another person moaning about their students and counting the minutes until they're out of their classroom.
I also apologise in advance for any and all insults or insinuations that come your way because I like and agree with what you posted!
Beth
- 2014-09-24
No, it's horrific to the overwhelming majority. It's only you and your gang on here that think calling all children brats and all the other things you do is acceptable. The rest of the population would agree with my assessment of 'horrific generalisation'.
Teaching at a middle school in China is not the same as teaching YL on the CEFR scale. Come back to me when you've guided a class of 13/14 year olds through an PET exam. Or 15/16 year olds through an FCE.
TCs might all be about profit for the owners, but it's not the case for the teachers. Another example of you lot being unable to differentiate basic concepts.
It's good you don't like awake at night analyzing the relatively common sense notion that in order for a university age students to arrive at uni speaking upper-intermediate English, that they.must have been taught that by a YL teacher! If that was a conundrum to you, I'd be worried!
I disagree completely at your assessment of both male and female Chinese students, that's just another generalisation and certainly not indicative of ALL students. More lazy sweeping statements.
No DoS drummed the idea that a teachers job is to inspire their students. Like a lot of teachers I know, that came from having a wonderful teacher as a child who has stayed with them forever. I was lucky enough to have a couple who I still regularly think about, and thank them for encouraging and supporting me through a very difficult time in my life. That's the power of a good teacher.
No, I'm not...I do not treat them as a meat market, you are stuffing words into my mouth again.
And if they are all girls or mostly girls the better. I like to date ex female students so getting their phone numbers is good for me
Beth
- 2014-09-24
If I thought for a second CT went to even half the effort you do as outlined above, I would agree! Unfortunately he's made it clear he's more interested in his female students, so I think motivation and encouragement of his male students is not something he's that concerned with! He's already said he wants mainly or all female classes!
The other points you raised I agree with, although a motivating, well prepared and engaging teacher will always have more luck maintaining the interest of their students than one who has done the bare minimum to get through the class.
Excellent post, I enjoyed reading it 
Concerned Teacher
- 2014-09-24
Quite apart from the horrific generalisations about the mindset of Spanish children
Only horrific to you,not to everyone else.
You have no idea what teaching YL is.
Oh I think you will find I do. I probably taught at more middle schools in China than you EVER did!
I'm not sure why you feel the need to make education so divisive?
And why do you seem intent on creating division on here?
Some people like teaching YL, some people like teaching adults.
Fair enough. No worries on that score.
Both are equally valid.
Correct...but I still maintain kids at a training centre is all about the profit motive, and nowt much else. Everyone gets scammed.
You would be unable to teach your conversational adult classes if a YL teacher hadn't got your students to that level in the first place.
Possibly, but I don't lay awake and analyze things like that.
Perhaps because you are not motivating or engaging enough?
Perhaps, or perhaps they are just ill mannered little emperors who think everything should be handed to them?
You can't blame lack of desire to learn on the student
Actually I can. Chinese women are leaders and managers in every sense of the word, Chinese boys are lazy and are spoiled my mummy and daddy. Chinese women know they have to work hard to succeed, or else be a rich mans whore, while he has an "er nai" in the ktv or elsewhere.
you have to inspire them to learn, that is your job.
Who was the EF DOS who drummed this into you? ESL in China is not a job, and I am resolutely not sorry for stating that fact. Your thinking is so small here, it is a hiatus or a holiday, nothing more. Working at EF is NOT a Career!!!!! Not one student remembers you after you are gone, not one, and certainly no other EF staff will.
You are clearly more interested in your female students than you are the male students
Yes because they are better at listening, speaking and writing and just in terms of general manners better than chinese boys in everywhere. Ask even some female FT's at public jobs, they will say the same. You never worked at a public job, so you cannot comment on this.
perhaps if you didn't treat your classes as a meat market (see below) then the boys might feel more engaged with your lessons.
I do not treat them as a meat market, you are stuffing words into my mouth again. Dating EX- student females is ok however. Nothing wrong with that. As for the boys who are prepared to knuckle down, not behave like a pig, and be polite, then yes I have time for them.
You should be focusing on their education, not wondering what they'll be like in bed.
Wrong. I actually prefer to date chinese female teachers, or you will be saying that is wrong also?
Walking Dead
- 2014-09-24
You can't blame lack of desire to learn on the student, you have to inspire them to learn, that is your job
I'm not sure that is entirely true for the adult students that the previous poster was talking about. Yes you should be engaging and students should be motivated to learn in a university class but they are adults and they have made a choice to be studying at that level. Their motivation should come from an interest in the subject matter and they should also be more keenly aware of the importance of doing well in their studies in regards to what they want to achieve in the future which should again serve as motivation. Yes, you will find unmotivated and lazy students at uni level in any country, both boys and girls. I find that Chinese university students sometimes lack a bit of maturity and a few life skills. One of the first things i like to do with a new class (especially first and second year uni students) is impress upon them how they are now adults, that they will be treated as an equal within my class and they will have all the other advantages that come with adulthood. On the flip side as an adult you also need to take responsibility for your own actions. Therefore, if students don't want to come to class or they don't want to participate, etc., etc. that is their choice but they must also realize that there are consequences to their decisions.
Further to the above i generally spend at least an hour in my first class with a group of uni students doing the following
1. Within groups a discussion about what a student should/shouldn't do to be successful within xxxxx class - feedback and further discussion as a class
2. Within groups a discussion about what makes a good teacher of xxxxx class - feedback and further discussion as a class
There is of course always the opportunity for the teacher to add anything important that might have been missed during the discussion
3. A pyramid discussion about what students want to learn from xxxxxx class - feedback as a class followed by teacher presenting the syllabus
You'd hope that the syllabus you present matches fairly well with the expectations the students have. Depending on the course and the university you teach at you may be able to make amendments to what is taught.
4. Teacher introduces how final grading will be calculated - again it's dependent on the course but i personally like to dedicate a chunk of the final grade towards attendance/participation. That does mean that you have to be dedicated to taking attendance and carrying out some form of ongoing assessment to determine how to grade a student's participation accurately.
Personally I've found this approach of letting the students know your expectations while simultaneously understanding theirs is quite successful in engaging them with the class. Of course there are always students who struggle with motivation but at uni level i have to say i don't generally chase them too much (for the reasons stated above). What i usually do is at the half way point of a class i'll sit down and have a look at which students might fail the class. In my experience 9 out of 10 of those who are likely to fail are due to motivational/attendance issues. I'll then contact the student (via email) to tell them they may fail the course while at the same time i'll contact the department head and tell them i have a student(s) who could fail as a result of these issues. From hard experience you do need to cover your posterior from time to time when working as a teacher. As i mentioned above it's often uni students who aren't sufficiently mature who don't realize the consequences of their actions and they will sometimes seek to shift blame for their failings on to someone else i.e. the teacher. I endeavor to make my classes engaging, i make it clear to my students what is expected of them, i include them within the learning process, i am happy to tell them if they are falling short of the expectations for my class and i'm always available to them should they have any issues they wish to discuss. At some point the blame for a lack of desire can't rest solely with the teacher ............
BeenThere
- 2014-09-23
"The boys don't really have much desire or reasoning to learn english"
Perhaps because you are not motivating or engaging enough? You can't blame lack of desire to learn on the student, you have to inspire them to learn, that is your job. You are clearly more interested in your female students than you are the male students,
Excellent evaluation! You saw through him, Beth!!! You read him like a book!!! You made my morning... Thank you!
Beth
- 2014-09-23
Quite apart from the horrific generalisations about the mindset of Spanish children, for the umpteenth time, YL teaching is NOT teaching kindergarten age. YL teaching is from 7-17 years old and ranges from A1 to C1 on the CEFR. I have a group of 13 year olds this year studying for their PET (B1) exam and another group of 15 year olds studying for their FCE (B2) and a group of 17 year olds studying for their CAE (C1), so not kindergarten.That is your call, but I cannot stand the little horrors. I cannot think of anything worse than a class full of spoiled spanish brats. While I find spanish people amiable, it's another thing to have to teach their offspring, much as I could not tolerate teaching Chinese kids, who knows spanish kids might be nicer,but kindergarten is not for me, tried it, did not like it, would not want to do it again ever.
You have no idea what teaching YL is.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to make education so divisive? Some people like teaching YL, some people like teaching adults. Both are equally valid. You would be unable to teach your conversational adult classes if a YL teacher hadn't got your students to that level in the first place.
Perhaps because you are not motivating or engaging enough? You can't blame lack of desire to learn on the student, you have to inspire them to learn, that is your job. You are clearly more interested in your female students than you are the male students, perhaps if you didn't treat your classes as a meat market (see below) then the boys might feel more engaged with your lessons.The boys don't really have much desire or reasoning to learn english
So your classes are like a buffet for you? Wonderful. You should be focusing on their education, not wondering what they'll be like in bed.and I like to date ex female students so getting their phone numbers is good for me. Not dating them while I am teaching them mind.
Concerned Teacher
- 2014-09-23
I enjoy teaching young learners
That is your call, but I cannot stand the little horrors. I cannot think of anything worse than a class full of spoiled spanish brats. While I find spanish people amiable, it's another thing to have to teach their offspring, much as I could not tolerate teaching Chinese kids, who knows spanish kids might be nicer, but kindergarten is not for me, tried it, did not like it, would not want to do it again ever.
I prefer teaching adults, but not at a training centre, but at a public college/uni in China. And if they are all girls or mostly girls the better. The boys don't really have much desire or reasoning to learn english, and I like to date ex female students so getting their phone numbers is good for me. Not dating them while I am teaching them mind.
Beth
- 2014-09-22
How can one person be so contradictory in one post..
First we have the altruistic..
Some people may always have the "thick skull" they have shown to have. The good side of the coin is that they cannot be bought over and that they won't sell out their 200 y/o grandmother or soul for the sake of filthy money alone and that they cannot be corrupted. Very much different from the self-sell-outs who are EF teachers, corporate lackeys of crappy businesses and defenders of shitty businesses
Then a whole long rant about how I get paid peanuts and need to earn more money!
You'd better look for some extra private lessons to add some more decent money, earned by hard and honest work, to add a bit to the relatively low income your training centre is paying you!If the same is below 2000 Euros after tax, then they would pay you peanuts for all the hard work you are doing for them. A uni professor in my country would, on the other hand, get between 6000 - 7500 Euros each month for a weekly teaching load of 8 hours + extra work in research, committee work, counseling students, etc. Not too difficult a job if you love it and if you are really qualified for it. Just to put things a bit in perspective for you.
So which is it, Turnoi?! Money grabbing corporate lackey or underpaid and overworked?! It can't possibly be both!
And do stop bleating on about university teaching being the pinnacle we should all be striving for... I enjoy teaching young learners, why on earth would I want to work in a place that ruled that age group out?! Not everyone segregates education in to important age groups and unimportant age groups, as you do.
Just think, you wouldn't be able to teach your advanced level English at a university if a YL teacher hadn't taught your students up to that level to begin with! Or do you think students turn 18 and can suddenly speak and understand advanced or upper-intermediate English?!